A Conversation with Duchess Celestia

[00:00:00] Halfling: Thanks for tuning into the Halfling and the Spaceman: Journeys In Active Fandom, we're having great conversations with people that have turned their love of fandom into something creative. We're fans talking to fans, and we're excited today to be talking with Paige, better known as Duchess Celestia, an independent artist and designer specializing in digital art with an anime and comic inspired style.

[00:00:32] Halfling: Welcome.

[00:00:33] Duchess Celestia: Thank you. I'm really, really excited to be here.

[00:00:36] Halfling: Well, we are very excited to have you. We appreciate it. We've watched you on some of your videos. Well, we've watched your art being created and heard your heard your commentaries. So we're gonna just dive in here. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

[00:00:55] Duchess Celestia: I am a 25 year old illustrator and art commentary YouTuber from Canada. And on the art side of things, I mostly draw anime and comic inspired illustrations, both for personal and commercial projects and on the YouTube side, I really just ramble about art for like 10 to 30 minute periods of time.

[00:01:14] Duchess Celestia: And sometimes people listen.

[00:01:16] Halfling: We have enjoyed hearing your commentary because a lot of times we're just fist bumping and going, yep, yep. She said it. Yes. 

[00:01:24] Duchess Celestia: I'm glad that's the goal.

[00:01:28] Halfling: I mean, we're obviously not artists ourselves, but we can appreciate how some of your commentary would translate over into other creative endeavors. Some of the same challenges and issues that other types of creators face. That's one of the reasons that we really, became interested in having you on the show and, you know, watching, some of your YouTube videos.

[00:01:49] Halfling: So, where did you grow up?

[00:01:53] Duchess Celestia: I grew up in small town Alberta, town called Red Deer. It's, I think, well, it's bigger now. I think it's like a hundred thousand people, but now I live in Calgary.

[00:02:04] Halfling: Okay. Okay. And are you still basically in the same area, close to the same area? Have you ever lived outside Canada?

[00:02:15] Duchess Celestia: I haven't lived outside Canada, but I did live in Quebec for a while because my wife and I met long distance and that's where she lived. So then I moved there to go be with her for a while, and then we moved back to Alberta. But I haven't had the pleasure of living outside the country for very long.

[00:02:29] Halfling: okay.

[00:02:30] Duchess Celestia: I've been outside the country, but.

[00:02:32] Halfling: Mm-hmm. Okay. Is there anything else you'd like to tell us about yourself? Any of your experience in terms of your education, any type of courses that you took?

[00:02:45] Duchess Celestia: I'm mostly self-taught. I've done a lot of online study. I did a lot of art in high school, but I don't think that really counts. In terms of post-secondary education, I did consider it for a while and I spoke to a lot of people that did go to art school and pursue path and I just decided that it wasn't right for me and I instead, had to take online education usually on Wingfox, Skillshare, and Uni.

[00:03:09] Duchess Celestia: Although I think Wingfox is the most educational for me cuz those are like 45 hour intensive industry led courses. Whereas Skillshare, I mean, it's awesome and I love Skillshare, but the course lengths there can vary so it can be anything from it and it, here's how to draw a foot to 10 hours of intensive study, but Wingfox is pretty much exclusively like, proper, long courses that are really, really in depth.

[00:03:36] Duchess Celestia: And I found those the most helpful.

[00:03:38] Halfling: Okay. Well it's good to have both options. Today there are a lot of options for people to learn new skills or trades or what have you. You've got all sorts of courses like with Skillshare or Brilliant, or even LinkedIn Learning. It is just a plethora of opportunities out there.

[00:03:59] Halfling: So you can learn whatever you choose to learn. It's just a matter of the motivation that you have and the time you are willing to put into it.

[00:04:10] Duchess Celestia: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:04:11] Spaceman: We tend to talk to people who have started their journey in their creative endeavors as a maker, as a builder, as a creator. From their point of view of their fandom. So what is the earliest memory you have of being a fan of something?

[00:04:28] Duchess Celestia: Oh man, that's hard because there were just so many, but I think the first time I would really recall having loved something so much that I would proudly and aggressively call my fan of, it was probably, InuYasha or Tokyo Mew Mew when I was a kid and maybe Ape Escape if that counts. It's a video game.

[00:04:46] Duchess Celestia: But I think in InuYasha was my first hardcore, oh my God, this is my life now. Kind of, kind of fan experience,

[00:04:55] Spaceman: We understand we're a couple of anime nerds ourselves, so

[00:04:59] Halfling: Uh,

[00:05:00] Spaceman: little on the old school side, but.

[00:05:01] Halfling: yeah. When somebody says, I'm an anime fan, you don't know exactly what they're talking about because anime covers such a wide, wide gambit of different types of genres cuz because, you can have the giant mechas, you can have this love stories, you can have just everything.

[00:05:22] Halfling: And so when somebody says, you know, I'm an anime fan, you really don't know what they mean.

[00:05:27] Spaceman: Yes. Everything everyth. Yeah, everything from Pokemon to, oh my God, my eyes. My eyes.

[00:05:37] Duchess Celestia: Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm currently rewinding Death Note and Fruits Basket at this time, and those are certainly, a combination. It really shows you how, uh diverse anime can really be as a genre because wow, the contrast.

[00:05:56] Spaceman: very much so. So, how long have you been an artist by career?

[00:06:02] Duchess Celestia: By career, I would say, I think it's going on eight years now.

[00:06:07] Halfling: Okay, so you've really been, in terms of a career, you've really been at it since you were in your teens.

[00:06:15] Duchess Celestia: since I was 17. Yeah. That was when I first started, pursuing it professionally and making a living from it cuz I had to, due to some unfortunate circumstances, I had to move out before I was 18 and we had to figure out a living situation. So I was pretty much forced to. Um I was also a barista. A barista, excuse me, at Starbucks at that time, but I didn't wanna do that forever, and I wanted to make art my job. So I was forced pretty young to be resourceful in terms of making that happen.

[00:06:44] Spaceman: Okay, how about your YouTube channel? How long have you been doing that?

[00:06:49] Duchess Celestia: That's been a lot more recent. Technically, the channel's been sitting there for, I, I think like 10 years now, but I've never done anything with it beyond the past two years. I always wanted to but I never had the courage to do it. I always thought I wasn't ready.

[00:07:04] Spaceman: Well, I must say, I really enjoy your YouTube channel, your commentary, especially on AI art. Because I work in technology, the whole AI revolution is something that I'm trying to keep a pace of and see what people are thinking and things like mid journey and stable diffusion and even things like chatGPT are going to change things in ways that we can't predict.

[00:07:28] Spaceman: And talking about the ethics of AI and how it affects artists in particular, but also in other areas is the thing that initially drew me to your channel.

[00:07:39] Duchess Celestia: Oh, that's really cool.

[00:07:40] Spaceman: Yeah, I appreciate the insight.

[00:07:43] Duchess Celestia: I honestly am really interested in your perspective on that too, because it is, it's a very, very controversial topic, but I think it's very worth discussing because AI art isn't going anywhere. And we could, if we worked with artists rights in mind to turn it into something really cool, like a really great tool and an innovative way to empower artists rather than replace or oppress them.

[00:08:05] Duchess Celestia: And I think a lot of the discussion pretty much ends with artists being mad about it. And I don't blame them for being mad about it, but I think it's really important to like, establish a discussion around it because it's a part of our future and the discussion, the future of it being good is pretty dependent on that discussion being open.

[00:08:26] Duchess Celestia: So it's really cool that you know that someone from what is effectively the opposite perspective of mine in that regard, finds value in that commentary. Cuz that means that discussion there, there's grounds for it to be had, you know?

[00:08:39] Spaceman: Right. Right. And I think that a lot of art commentators who have been talking about AI art in particular have been focusing on the ethics of just scraping people's art without permission. And I think that's problematic. So, you were dead on about that.

[00:08:57] Duchess Celestia: yeah, for sure. Like I think there needs to be more of a discussion on how it could be that happened , that was a problem. And that still remains to be a problem. But I think we also need to have more of a discussion about how it can look in the future. Like rather than focusing on the thing, the bad thing that happened.

[00:09:16] Duchess Celestia: Making things less bad in the future is pretty much all we can really do

[00:09:21] Spaceman: Okay. All right.

[00:09:23] Duchess Celestia: in my opinion. 

[00:09:24] Halfling: I wanna interject something, as part of this, I think that,, and again, I'm not an artist, so I'm not part of the artist culture, but I suspect that a lot of artists, probably more so with the older artists, are fearful that it's going to take their livelihood away.

[00:09:46] Duchess Celestia: Oh, Absolutly.

[00:09:47] Halfling: I know you've addressed that. What's your. Answer to that. Especially for the older, established artists that have been producing for so many years, and now all of a sudden here comes these, young artists that are just whipping up this stuff with just the keyboard.

[00:10:02] Halfling: What's your answer to that?

[00:10:04] Spaceman: May I interject real quick? 

[00:10:06] Duchess Celestia: Yeah.

[00:10:07] Spaceman: To add on to the Halfling's question. Celestia do you consider, the prompt drafters to be artist?

[00:10:16] Duchess Celestia: Oh boy. That's, that's a loaded question on both ends. I'll ask that one first cuz it's easier to me. I do not consider them to be artists. I consider them to be, I consider the idea is the art. I suppose in the argument that they would have to defend themselves being an artist, but if they couldn't bring that idea to life on their own and they were not the ones to bring it to life, and they also weren't the ones to create the parameters with which it was brought to life.

[00:10:41] Duchess Celestia: Like if they wrote the AI, that created it, and they actually like, it's their program and their prompts, then I suppose I consider them to be the artist. Although, whether that, I think okay, not to go off on a tangent, but I think the line should really be drawn rather than is AI art, art and are AI artists, the line needs to be drawn between genre rather than what is and isn't art, just say it's AI art, it's not traditional art.

[00:11:10] Duchess Celestia: And then in that case, I feel like it would be easier to distinguish who would be the artist than what would be art in that case, but I don't think someone who has an idea but does know they don't participate in the process that brings that idea to life. I don't think that makes them an artist because they, the artistic process was completely completed by the AI, not them.

[00:11:34] Duchess Celestia: So that would be effectively to me, like saying anyone with an idea that does nothing to bring that idea to life is therefore a creator? Because they weren't an active participant in the things creation. That's just my opinion. No, it's obviously a very, very subjective matter that I think a lot of people are really struggling to define right now.

[00:11:54] Duchess Celestia: But in terms of jobs, that's a much scarier one because It can feel really powerless right now because jobs are being lost. And when I made my first video on AI art, I was a lot more optimistic in terms of what the future would look like for artists, because I thought it would be like a tool, like I thought some jobs might be replaced in terms of concept art and visual development because AI might take those positions.

[00:12:17] Duchess Celestia: But I also thought that fully rendered illustrations and things like that would still fall into the hands of artists because AI are prone to making so many mistakes with it. So I thought that those jobs would remain safe, and I also thought that new jobs would come up because then there would be positions for artists to revise AI art, and there would be an entirely new subset of the industry devoted to that. In reality, I really underestimated how much and how quickly AI art would improve and how companies would throw artists under the bus. Really? Like if you look at current events, all you really see are new headlines of companies trying to disguise AI art as human art or giving AI jobs that human artists would've had.

[00:12:58] Duchess Celestia: And the jobs that I had hoped to see a rising for artists in terms of, refining and working with AI art are not being generated at the rate that I hope to see. They're being lost so much faster than they're being generated. And I think the answer to that is, I mean, 1 thing I did hear that was positive on the frontier of artists still retaining jobs throughout, the integration of AI into industry positions was the idea that we should lobby for more legislation that is essentially, I don't know if you guys are familiar with Canadian content laws, but here we have, it's a very controversial bill.

[00:13:37] Duchess Celestia: It's bad. I made a video about why it's bad, but it's based on giving Canadians more jobs in content creation by making sure that a certain amount of that content creation is done by a Canadian, and then that content will be promoted more to Canadians because it meets this criteria. So basically, for it to fall into the CanCon or Canadian content category, it has to be produced by a certain number of Canadians.

[00:14:02] Duchess Celestia: This person was suggesting that we should fight for more legislation in creative industries, for there to be a minimum of human artists that are employed on these projects so that they are funded, so that it would be like a minimum to achieve a grant for that to be promoted by certain service. to get that extra mile of support from streaming companies, from, publishing companies, from all of that, it would have to meet, a minimum of core human artist staff.

[00:14:33] Duchess Celestia: And I think that was potentially the most promising solution that I've seen, because that way companies would be incentivized to not do the things that they're currently doing and actually make sure that human artists jobs are being safely and consistently considered.

[00:14:51] Duchess Celestia: Sorry, I rambled a lot,

[00:14:52] Halfling: No, no, no, no. This is good stuff.

[00:14:56] Halfling: This is, yeah, this is good stuff. I mean, and you're right in the thick of it. This is something that you have to deal with in your career. Which leads me to a question I hadn't thought about, but since we started talking, have you done anything on the front of legislation or anything like that?

[00:15:15] Halfling: Or are you just sort of hanging back, doing your thing and watching to see what's gonna happen next?

[00:15:21] Duchess Celestia: as of right now, I am looking into that, but a lot of it is currently dependent on copyright law being revised because, these companies are more prioritizing the way, so they don't want artists to be in these positions. They would rather cut corners and just use AI. So the first fight that we need to have is to make that harder for them.

[00:15:43] Duchess Celestia: And that's the part that I have been actively involved in trying to fight against, with that is, supporting spreading word about all of the class action lawsuits that are fighting for AI art to be more, oh, what's the word, not ethically sourced I to stop using the art of others in commercial works to the extent that they are, especially with the rate of overfitting, which is admittedly like 1.88%.

[00:16:11] Duchess Celestia: That sounds low, but the incidents of that occurring considering how often AI art is being generated, is still pretty significant, which means that based on the data set that it was trained on, it does have a chance of just replicating something that an artist made that it saw when it was trained.

[00:16:29] Duchess Celestia: And the current, big fight against these companies is. in not letting them use that and claim copyright on it. But there aren't many, there aren't many opportunities. I suppose, in terms of fighting for like the job aspect of it, yet because the groundwork hasn't been laid, there's not much legally to go on that's been established about AI art as a whole.

[00:16:58] Duchess Celestia: Like the reason there are so many lawsuits is because copyright law was completely unprepared for this. And we don't even know how to legally recognize AI art or what qualifies as human generated enough to be copyrighted or human generated enough to be considered AI free Even.

[00:17:18] Duchess Celestia: Like, there's just so much that's so unclear legally that the fight for artists' rights in these situations is pretty much just limited to that right now because that's the groundwork that needs to be laid in order for workers' rights to then be considered because workers' rights are heavily dependent on things like that.

[00:17:38] Halfling: Well, are you familiar with either the book or the movie that Robin Williams starred in the Bicentennial Man? Did you ever

[00:17:48] Halfling: see that? 

[00:17:48] Duchess Celestia: I've, familiar with the name, but no, I haven't.

[00:17:52] Halfling: So robin Williams, who stellar performance, in this movie, plays a robot who achieves sentience. And throughout the movie, there becomes increasingly this matter of, you know, okay, should we now give him human status? Should we now give him human rights? and I mean, it made me cry in some places.

[00:18:21] Halfling: But because it's Robin Williams, it also made me laugh in some places, you know? But you really should check it out because it speaks to this, not on the level of how it affects art and artist per se, but it's a similar fight. It's a similar conflict and struggle to figure out, what is the place of this character in society? 

[00:18:44] Halfling: and he was basically immortal. So he lived for hundreds of years, and his struggle to finally be recognized as human. 

[00:18:55] Duchess Celestia: Wow.

[00:18:56] Halfling: It's a great movie. I would highly recommend it. Especially, this is something that you're obviously passionate about.

[00:19:02] Halfling: I think you would appreciate it. 

[00:19:04] Duchess Celestia: Yeah. Now I know what I'm watching with dinner. 

[00:19:06] Halfling: there you go. 

[00:19:07] Duchess Celestia: really, really fascinating.

[00:19:08] Halfling: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:19:10] Duchess Celestia: Because I think it's a very similar issue to AI art because it's still finding its place in the industry and in the community as a whole. Like I think a lot of artists are really threatened by it, and I think that's fair.

[00:19:21] Duchess Celestia: I'm threatened by it. I'm terrified by it, but I still think it's beautiful sometimes, and I still think it's a genre of art that should have every right to be appreciated. And I feel like a lot of us are focusing on the fear and reasonably so. I mean, jobs are being lost. Our livelihoods are being threatened.

[00:19:37] Duchess Celestia: We have every reason to be afraid. But I think considering in, in that analogy, people were probably threatened by that robot. People were probably afraid of him, but that does not mean he doesn't have redeemable qualities and he shouldn't be eligible for similar treatment to humans. It's just he's, it's different, but that doesn't mean it's not valid, just like it seems like that character is.

[00:20:03] Halfling: Oh, Absolutely. 

[00:20:05] Spaceman: Talking about AI art and how it plays with regular art, I think there's always gonna be a place for bespoke art, whether it's for gallery hangings or for dedicated illustrations. But, the tools are only gonna improve. So, I understand the concerns about it. It's gonna be more and more difficult for publishers to justify paying for bespoke art, when AI art is so much cheaper, but by the other hand, until AI can actually create something on its own that is not derivative of other people's works, you know, if we don't have artists creating original works, then we're gonna have art itself stagnate..

[00:20:50] Duchess Celestia: Yeah, exactly. And I think that's actually one of my biggest concerns with AI art. is because I find that it's actually discouraging people from learning how to draw and create original art because it's just so much easier to find a generator and put in a prompt. And then people are saying, well, you know, I never wanted to put in all the work it takes to be an artist and now I don't have to, now I can just be an artist.

[00:21:10] Duchess Celestia: And that's not true. You're, I mean, in my opinion, that doesn't make you an artist. And for AI to create new art and have that, have art as a whole really continue to grow and thrive and adapt, we need people, like human artists to continue to make it. And I feel like as fascinating and potentially groundbreaking as AI art has the potential to be in the art community.

[00:21:37] Duchess Celestia: I think it's also holding people back from actually learning to draw. If, like I've met people who have said, I was really considering learning how to draw now I won't, I don't have a reason to. And I feel like that's really scary for the future of art.

[00:21:54] Spaceman: It's scary for the future of not just art, but you know, pretty much

[00:21:57] Spaceman: all of us. Yeah. Cause you know, it's a lot to take in.

[00:22:01] Halfling: Well, just imagine, somebody who had wanted to go to med school and learn to be a surgeon, and then you have, these robotic surgeons that can perform the surgery and so now you know, they just needed the surgeon to sort of guide some of the instruments and, just imagine the surgeon going, well, you know, I was gonna learn surgery, but now I don't have to

[00:22:24] Duchess Celestia: Exactly. It's, it's

[00:22:26] Duchess Celestia: rendering half of society redundant and half of society is being generous. I mean, I used to work in marketing that job that I had barely exists anymore because AI is writing copy , like, it's, it's, so, I guess it brings us back to the, age old question of are we focusing too much on what we can do and not enough on what we should do?

[00:22:49] Halfling: Yep. Yep. Jeff Goldblum. God bless

[00:22:51] Halfling: him.

[00:22:52] Duchess Celestia: Yeah. 

[00:22:53] Spaceman: we, live in the age of social media, so we're definitely, spending too much time focusing on on what we can do.

[00:23:01] Duchess Celestia: Yeah. Yeah. Very true.

[00:23:04] Spaceman: all right, Halfling over to

[00:23:05] Halfling: yeah. So I wanted to ask you a question about, you know, are listeners wanting to find out about people's journeys in and to becoming creative forces and fandom? And with that in mind, what would you say your starting point was? Because you mentioned self-learning, your skills and everything, and sort of necessity.

[00:23:29] Halfling: By necessity, you started on that, and you mentioned doing the online courses, but, what would you say was really your starting point? When did you say, okay, this is what I'm doing as a career. This is what I'm gonna do.

[00:23:42] Duchess Celestia: You know what? I could tell you the exact moment I was, I think 16. I was in Quebec with my wife and I had gotten into my first artist alley at a convention, and somebody bought a print.

[00:23:54] Halfling: Hmm.

[00:23:55] Duchess Celestia: up until that point, I had applied to like six conventions. I'd gotten into maybe half of them. And I quit at the last minute and said, no one will ever wanna buy my art.

[00:24:04] Duchess Celestia: Why am I even trying? But I finally did it because my wife said, you know, you're being dumb. Please do this . And I did it and someone bought a print and then someone bought a button, and then someone bought a sticker. And I realized even if I don't see value in my own work, sometimes there are people out there who love the stuff that I'm doing and to love the, and they love the stuff that I'm drawing from, like the fandom stuff too.

[00:24:30] Duchess Celestia: They love it enough to want it. And that was when I realized I can do this and I want to do this.

[00:24:38] Halfling: Well, there's nothing like having that validation from others, random people you don't even know, to be a motivator. 

[00:24:46] Halfling: That's great. That's great.

[00:24:47] Spaceman: And it's always good to have somebody backing you up like the Halfling over here,

[00:24:53] Duchess Celestia: Exactly, exactly. Because you can't always be your own cheerleader. Sometimes it feels pretty hopeless. And I think having my wife has supported me through so much and she's always been the one to say, you do realize other people don't see your work like you do. Other people don't see these 800 tiny little flaws that you're hyper focusing on.

[00:25:13] Duchess Celestia: Just just post it. Just just go to the thing. Just do it. Just try. And that's made all the difference. And it's really cool that you guys are basically the same kind of like power couple in the fandom, fandom kind of thing because it's . I just love, I love to see that

[00:25:32] Spaceman: you know, it's, it is easier when you're not doing 

[00:25:35] Halfling: it alone.

[00:25:36] Duchess Celestia: for sure. 

[00:25:37] Halfling: It really, is. I mean, well we've been married 35 years,

[00:25:41] Spaceman: Forever 

[00:25:41] Halfling: uh,

[00:25:42] Duchess Celestia: Oh wow.

[00:25:45] Halfling: we're, we're old. Did I 

[00:25:46] Spaceman: it went 

[00:25:47] Halfling: old. 

[00:25:50] Duchess Celestia: I mean, that's the dream.

[00:25:53] Halfling: But, you know, it really is about having each other's backs and supporting each other and, given that push and just like you said, your wife said, I wish that you could see what other people see. Instead of focusing on the negative things that you think you're looking at.

[00:26:10] Halfling: It makes a huge difference. It really does. So, I'm glad you guys have that too. That's wonderful.

[00:26:17] Spaceman: Well, you know, it takes a village to raise pretty much everything, so

[00:26:22] Duchess Celestia: that's very true.

[00:26:24] Spaceman: We just got done with an episode where we were talking about somebody starting a science fiction convention.

[00:26:28] Spaceman: Actually, I think it was a gaming convention, but we were talking about help from friends and family and I said at the time, I said, it takes a village to raise a convention. And it's true, it's hard for us to exist by ourselves. So with that in mind, have you ever had, to reach out to the art community in general?

[00:26:46] Spaceman: Because I know you're active, on the TikTok art community. Can you tell us a little bit about your role with that community?

[00:26:54] Duchess Celestia: Actually, in terms of TikTok, I made a video about why I hate it, that's oversimplifying it, but I tried with TikTok. I did try, but I don't personally find it to be a very helpful environment. I did do a video going into why I feel that way in terms of it largely boils down to it being short form content to me, because a lot of it turns into short form bullying of other artists for art that they deem subpar.

[00:27:22] Duchess Celestia: And a lot of it turns into short form art education, which ends up not being, it ends up being misinformation because in 90 seconds you can't really convey the full point. So it ends up either being misconstrued or just not necessarily explained thoroughly enough. That said, I do, I see it as a much better space for fandom than I do for art.

[00:27:47] Duchess Celestia: Like the convention that I used to work at as vice Chair of marketing. As soon as they reached out on TikTok and started building, a platform there, they were able to connect with other fans in a way that I haven't experienced in the art side of things, but was so cool and empowering, to see in terms of the fandom side, which was really cool.

[00:28:08] Duchess Celestia: So I'm thinking about, trying to connect in a different way than with the art community and more just with the fandom side.

[00:28:15] Spaceman: Okay, you got my interest. What convention were you working with and you said you were doing marketing, cuz we're big into conventions.

[00:28:25] Duchess Celestia: Oh, okay. I was vice chair of marketing for ODA Fest in Calgary for two years. I volunteered for them in a smaller capacity just on the art team for I think three or four years before that. But yeah,

[00:28:38] Spaceman: We helped run the hospitality suite and volunteers for an Anime Mid-Atlantic in Virginia for,

[00:28:45] Duchess Celestia: Oh, cool

[00:28:46] Spaceman: almost a decade, 

[00:28:48] Halfling: may 

[00:28:48] Halfling: actually

[00:28:49] Duchess Celestia: dude, that's 

[00:28:49] Halfling: was 12. 12 years. Yeah. So it was over a decade.

[00:28:53] Duchess Celestia: Oh, wow.

[00:28:54] Halfling: Yeah.

[00:28:56] Spaceman: so you're among your people.

[00:28:57] Halfling: Yeah.

[00:28:58] Duchess Celestia: That's so cool. Aw. Convention people are the best people. ODAFest is still my family even now that I'm not with them in a professional capacity anymore. It's just those are the connections that you have for life.

[00:29:10] Spaceman: mm-hmm. very much.

[00:29:12] Halfling: Yeah. Yeah. Getting back to your journey and to have how you've become successful in your career, what, can you sort of take us through the steps of your process and for creating your art and what led you to get your first commission piece?

[00:29:34] Duchess Celestia: That's actually a really weird, funny story because it was really just one commission that set the whole ball rolling for my career. And it was from my uncle and he plays poker semi-professionally and he has two friends that also do, and he commissioned me to draw them just as a Christmas present as poker wizards.

[00:29:54] Duchess Celestia: So I did, it was a lot of fun actually. It was my first time drawing like a proper, full commission for someone that was full color. Like, It was going through the, the acceptance and approval process and all of that, and it was done. And I was like, all right, that was fun. I guess I had a good time, whatever, and I thought it was done.

[00:30:12] Duchess Celestia: But, as it turns out, one of those poker wizards had a wife that worked in marketing for an investment firm, and then she saw that art and decided to hire me to do my first freelance position ever, like contract based and design her entire staff as like sci-fi fantasy characters for marketing purposes.

[00:30:33] Duchess Celestia: And then that one got me, a job doing a commission for a guy's, some art for his restaurant, and then a few more followed that. And then word of mouth pretty much just ended up giving me a portfolio that allowed me to get into the art scene. It was a really weird, wild, coincidental turn of events.

[00:30:53] Halfling: Wow, that's really cool. Because sometimes that's how it happens. It doesn't happen like that all the time, but sometimes it's just being in the right place at the. Right time or knowing the right person and just one little thing happens and then it just snowballs like it did in your case.

[00:31:09] Halfling: So that's,

[00:31:10] Duchess Celestia: Yeah, I was really, really lucky in that regard. It's so funny thinking back to that original commission cuz I was just like, I never could have known that was what was gonna change my hard career . Like just drawing two guys as poker wizards.

[00:31:25] Spaceman: So quick question. You also do some graphic design work, and I've seen your logos and they're very nice. What percentage of 

[00:31:32] Duchess Celestia: Oh, thank you. 

[00:31:34] Spaceman: what percentage of your work is graphic design versus just strict illustration?

[00:31:39] Duchess Celestia: I would say that most of the freelance positions that I get on a contractual basis, those are, I would say, 60% graphic design, because that's what people have the most demand for, I would say. And that's what I've done on a professional level for, long-term contracts with companies as well.

[00:31:54] Duchess Celestia: Like, ODA Fest for example. That was volunteer based, but that was, how I got my foot in the door with graphic design because I did all of their stuff, for quite a while and now though, I've stepped away from that more in than I do a lot less graphic design, but I will say that it was a big way for in the door of making art my job, because people are way more interested in hiring graphic designers than illustrators for the most part.

[00:32:24] Duchess Celestia: I mean, it makes sense. People need graphic design.

[00:32:26] Spaceman: Definitely Definitely, as somebody who has commissioned, well, do you commission graphic design? Well, I've

[00:32:37] Duchess Celestia: Uh, yeah,

[00:32:40] Halfling: Sure 

[00:32:40] Spaceman: I've commissioned both art and graphic design, so I understand the value of both.

[00:32:45] Duchess Celestia: Yeah. Yeah, that's fair.

[00:32:49] Halfling: Tell us a little more about your YouTube channel. How in the world did you get into that? What made you decide that you were gonna start doing that?

[00:32:59] Duchess Celestia: Um, yeah, that's, it's a weird story cuz I'm kind of in a weird niche of YouTube. Like, you don't really think about speed, paint and commentary together unless you're like already a part of the art commentary community. There were some channels that inspired me, like, lavender Town and Hopeless Peaches.

[00:33:15] Duchess Celestia: But the whole story really starts when I went out for Ramen with two of my friends, one of which was James from a YouTube channel called Cat Girl Research Society . He's a big anime fan. That's where that comes from.

[00:33:27] Halfling: Okay.

[00:33:28] Duchess Celestia: he told me, just that YouTube was the future of getting your art out there.

[00:33:34] Duchess Celestia: Like that was the new way and potentially the best way to connect with those audiences and build a platform. And my response was to eat my ramen and go home and say, that sounds like I would never succeed at it and forget about it for three years. And then , my best friend in the world who has his own channel, he works with his best friend there, it's called ca.

[00:33:55] Duchess Celestia: Uh, they have some debate about the pronunciation, Kado Y t, and they do anime analysis videos. And I had known both of them since long before they started that channel. And then they started it and I got to watch them grow from. , like 10 subscribers to now over a hundred thousand. I watched them get their silver play button and find so much success there, just talking about their passions.

[00:34:19] Duchess Celestia: And I was so proud of them and inspired by them. And I just, I looked at them and I looked at what James had told me and I was like, I have to try. 

[00:34:28] Duchess Celestia: And, I found those channels, like hopeless peaches in Lavender Town and similar art commentary channels. And I was like, I can talk about stuff. I can draw Let's combine them.

[00:34:40] Halfling: Oh, that, that makes sense. You know, Reese's peanut butter cup, you know you got chocolate. You got chocolate in my peanut butter. You got peanut butter in my chocolate.

[00:34:50] Spaceman: Hey, and you never know

[00:34:51] Duchess Celestia: Yeah, exactly.

[00:34:52] Spaceman: Yeah. You, You, 

[00:34:53] Spaceman: You,

[00:34:54] Spaceman: never know. The Halfling in the Spaceman might have a YouTube channel 

[00:34:57] Halfling: Uh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:58] Duchess Celestia: Oh, you should

[00:35:00] Halfling: Uh,

[00:35:00] Spaceman: people will be whist willing to listen to a couple of geezers talk about it.

[00:35:04] Halfling: I, I don't think we could. I don't know if people would wanna actually see us. That's the thing.

[00:35:09] Duchess Celestia: Oh, I promise you. I promise you they would.

[00:35:13] Spaceman: I don't know about

[00:35:14] Duchess Celestia: I certainly would.

[00:35:17] Spaceman: Yeah, I told the Halfling, I think I have a face made for radio. So

[00:35:24] Duchess Celestia: Oh, hardly.

[00:35:26] Duchess Celestia: You guys would be awesome.

[00:35:28] Spaceman: all right. Th thank you so much.

[00:35:30] Halfling: I appreciate that. Have you always loved to draw. have you

[00:35:35] Halfling: always, 

[00:35:36] Halfling: I mean, 

[00:35:37] Duchess Celestia: My. 

[00:35:37] Halfling: since,

[00:35:39] Duchess Celestia: It's, it's almost exclusively because of my mom actually. She is, always been a huge appreciator of art. She says that she can't draw at all. I think that's just cuz she hasn't given herself a chance to, but she makes up for that with art appreciation. I think I, my earliest memory of going to an art gallery with her was when I was like, four, and we would just spend hours there looking at all the pieces and she would ask me, well, what do you like about it?

[00:36:02] Duchess Celestia: What does it make you feel? What do you not like about it? And like from a young age, she was always teaching me to appreciate art and really analyze what it was I valued about it.

[00:36:11] Halfling: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:12] Duchess Celestia: And then I started drawing and she was like, oh my God, she's an artist. Let's buy her every art book. So long as she uses it to study and shows me what she makes and it was a very positive supporting environment, that she created. And then I found anime and then I started drawing fan art for that, and I was like, oh, this is what I have to do for the rest of my life. I found my place.

[00:36:35] Halfling: That's a great feeling when you are that sure of what it is you want to do. And, you know, I don't think that I've ever had that feeling , so I'm glad for people that do, I'm just sort of gone through life, just sort of I don't know, just in the boat, just riding the tide, rolling along

[00:36:56] Duchess Celestia: I mean, there's nothing wrong with that, especially when you're exploring your passions now. Like that's what matters.

[00:37:02] Spaceman: Oh, yeah. The Halfling is only telling half the story

[00:37:07] Halfling: Okay.

[00:37:09] Spaceman: You helped publish a magazine.

[00:37:12] Duchess Celestia: Oh wow.

[00:37:13] Spaceman: helped run a convention,

[00:37:15] Halfling: Yeah,

[00:37:15] Spaceman: you 

[00:37:16] Duchess Celestia: that's very true. 

[00:37:17] Spaceman: You helped an anime mid-Atlantic. So yeah, the career wise, the Halfling may have never found her niche, but, fan wise, she rocks.

[00:37:26] Duchess Celestia: Oh yeah. Hell yeah. That's awesome. For sure. I mean, I feel like that's a big misconception in the community. Like if you don't make, not just art, but fandom too, like if you don't make the thing you're passionate about your job, you're not that passionate about it or it's not like a big enough part of your life.

[00:37:43] Duchess Celestia: And I think that's really dumb, in my opinion, to oversimplify it, to hell and back, I think that's really, really dumb because I mean, Pursuing what you love doesn't have to be your job so long as you're doing what you love in any capacity. I think that's what's so important, and it always makes me sad to hear people say like, oh, I didn't do it as a job.

[00:38:04] Duchess Celestia: So it's not the same. It's absolutely the same. You still love that thing enough to devote your passion and time and energy to it. I think it's just really, really sad when, to me, at least when people think of that as less than doing it as a job.

[00:38:20] Halfling: Well, I think you're, you know, all kidding aside about myself, but I think you're absolutely right. I hope that our listeners appreciate your message about that, because I think that you're absolutely right and a lot of times we get bent, you know, we get so bent up or so involved in our careers that we forget to be passionate about anything and forget that we have other things that we are passionate about, and we put those things aside and, so when people do pursue those things, they're passionate about, it's, even if it's not your career, especially if it's not your career, that's a really good thing.

[00:39:00] Halfling: And it's part of having a fulfilling life..

[00:39:05] Duchess Celestia: Exactly. Yeah, absolutely and having that fulfillment is, you don't have to do it as your job to get that so long as you're doing it and it's making you happy. I think that's really the bottom line that matters.

[00:39:17] Spaceman: Well, everybody has faced challenges along the way, roadblocks that they've had to overcome things that have kept 'em from being able to achieve what they want to achieve, when they wanted to achieve it. What were some of your roadblocks and how did you overcome them?

[00:39:35] Duchess Celestia: I think the biggest one as an artist trying to build my career in that regard was just finding an audience. Because it's the internet and it's great that it's so accessible for artists to share their work, but that means every artist is doing it. So you're constantly competing with hundreds of thousands of other artists that are so skilled and they're fantastic.

[00:39:56] Duchess Celestia: And to try to stand out in a sea of that is really, really hard. Like, I spent years, I think, with just 50 followers on Twitter, posting my art, hoping someday someone would find it and appreciate it . And, it didn't happen for the longest time. And I think that was the biggest challenge I faced was just still saying, okay, I mean, I'm, I'm still here.

[00:40:19] Duchess Celestia: I still haven't succeeded yet. In my mind, how do I keep telling myself it's worth it to keep going? Like, am I gonna, it's constantly waking up to facing the million failures that it takes before you find one success and doubting yourself, constantly thinking, am I not good enough? Am I ever gonna make it?

[00:40:41] Duchess Celestia: Is this worth my time? Should I just quit and find a different job? That was the biggest for me. It was the lack. I suppose it was the association inherently of my self-esteem with the engagement that I got online, because that's basically getting engagement online is how you build an art career in many ways these days.

[00:41:00] Duchess Celestia: And when you aren't getting that engagement, it feels like you're failing. But the way it actually, I overcame that was, during the pandemic at the very beginning of lockdown, I was watching a Game Grooms video. And Dan Aden said that he always has people asking, does he think they can make it like, cuz he makes, YouTube videos playing video games.

[00:41:24] Duchess Celestia: And he's also in two bands. I think he was only in one band at that point. But regardless, he's a musician and they asked him if he thought they could make it in artistic, creative, or otherwise unconventional careers, and his answer was always, yes. There's literally no reason that you couldn't make it if you just kept trying long enough.

[00:41:44] Duchess Celestia: The thing that stops people from making it is that they can't get through all of the failures that it takes to get to success. And it's obviously more complicated than that because sometimes you have to consider the financial side too. Like you can't always just keep pushing at something and then not make any money at it.

[00:42:02] Duchess Celestia: There comes a time when that is no longer financially feasible. And that's a part of it too. But he basically just said, . So long as you throw everything that you have into doing this every single day, the only thing that would stop you is yourself and giving up all of those times that you felt like you, you were failing.

[00:42:24] Duchess Celestia: But if you don't let that stop you ,you can do it. There is nothing you can't do if you just keep pushing that and never let it beat you. And something about it and the way he said it, which is much better than the way I'm saying it now. It just, it hit me really, really hard. And I just took that moment and I said, all right, I'm gonna do this.

[00:42:45] Duchess Celestia: This is what I'm gonna do. There's no more wishy-washy. Oh, what if I fail? I'm not gonna fail. There's no more, oh, I'm not good enough to start a YouTube channel and see if that works. I'm gonna do it anyway. And I think forcing myself through it is what did it.

[00:43:00] Spaceman: You know it is so powerful when that single person, whoever they may be in your life, whether they're a friend, a family member, or just an acquaintance, gives you that little bit of nudge that it takes you to do that creative thing that you've been wanting to do. And I

[00:43:21] Duchess Celestia: Absolutely.

[00:43:21] Spaceman: think so much as a community that we should encourage one another and not bring people down.

[00:43:28] Spaceman: And I'm glad, glad you found that encouragement..

[00:43:32] Duchess Celestia: Me too. Yeah, I think it's incredibly important because it's so easy to be surrounded by negativity, including your own, like I was so, I was drowning in self-doubt and it was just, it was so dark and it was just that one light of some random guy, I don't know. And we'll never know saying you can do it because he believes genuinely that anyone can.

[00:43:54] Duchess Celestia: And it just, it's beautiful that aspect of community is not dampened by the negativity of the internet. It's still there. It's still light and it's still stronger.

[00:44:05] Halfling: Yes. That is that sense of community and support. But it is also that sense of perseverance and, you know, we've heard from several writers that we've talked to and had on the show that, you have to get a thick skin because you will get rejection after rejection, after rejection when you , submit manuscripts and what have you.

[00:44:27] Halfling: And if you're gonna be one of these people that just go, whoa is me, every time you get one of these rejections, then you're not in it with your entire heart and you have to accept that those failures are gonna come, but that, that brings you the success because for all the failures, you're gonna get that first success.

[00:44:49] Halfling: And then it'll make everything, it'll make all the failures worth.

[00:44:53] Duchess Celestia: exactly.

[00:44:56] Halfling: Okay. So where do you draw your inspiration from? We've talked about challenges, and I know you do a lot of anime inspired art, but you also do other things, but where do you draw your inspiration from?

[00:45:09] Duchess Celestia: I mean, definitely a lot of it is from anime and movies and gaming. Like if you put a Ghibli movie in front of me, I'll be inspired for a full month but yeah, I think I'd say that's the majority of it in terms of my personal work but in terms of like actual artists that inspire me, definitely Omo Kat's work on Amari, that game was, oh, changed my life.

[00:45:32] Duchess Celestia: In terms of the Art Alone, Nemupan was an artist that inspired me to start making like more bright colors, a bigger part in my work. Arc Star is an artist that I am a huge fan of cause I have that really like retro anime style in their work that I can only hope to achieve someday.

[00:45:50] Duchess Celestia: Mimi N from The Sun Project, who basically turned anime into a way to express like social issues and mental health issues and things like that. Very, very cool stuff. I would really encourage anyone to check that out because it's, it's wow and then in terms of manga artists, Sherom, I can never say it.

[00:46:10] Duchess Celestia: Shero, Mik and Ju Gito are my biggest inspirations, I think.

[00:46:15] Halfling: Okay. 

[00:46:17] Duchess Celestia: There's a lot. I follow a lot of artists. Way too much

[00:46:19] Halfling: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:21] Spaceman: You know, it's funny, we follow podcasters, so

[00:46:24] Duchess Celestia: Yeah.

[00:46:25] Spaceman: it's amazing how that 

[00:46:26] Halfling: that works. Yeah. 

[00:46:30] Spaceman: Duchess. We talked a little bit earlier about conventions and we talked about the conventions we've done, the conventions you've done, and as you can tell, conventions are very important to the Halfling and the spaceman. So are you currently able to attend conventions and sell your art, or do you find that useful?

[00:46:47] Spaceman: And if you do, how do you sell your art?.

[00:46:50] Duchess Celestia: Conventions were how I got my start and I will never, never stop going whenever I can. I'm a agoraphobic and that's something that developed. In the time between my first convention and now. So that has made it harder. Like I used to be someone who would go to conventions in BC and Manitoba and Quebec and travel wherever I could to go to a convention and sell there.

[00:47:14] Duchess Celestia: And now I'm pretty much limited to the two major conventions in my province just because of that alone. But if it weren't for that, I would be traveling around the world for conventions, cuz I really think it's such a valuable experience, not just financially, but to connect with the people that love the stuff you love.

[00:47:30] Duchess Celestia: If I could have it my way, I would be selling at conventions 24 7, like doing the world circuit all year round, or at least all summer long but, as it is, I'm a little more limited, in terms of where else I sell my stuff usually on Etsy, I've found most success with, I just, I use print on demand companies for putting my art on shirts and stuff.

[00:47:50] Duchess Celestia: And then I also make all of my stickers and buttons and stuff like that by hand and then sell it that way.

[00:47:56] Spaceman: Another one of the things we're trying to do with our show is that we're trying to help listeners who are just starting out with their careers and so we always ask everyone that comes on the show. If you could go back in time and tell young you what you, you know, now that you wish you would've known, then what would it be?

[00:48:18] Duchess Celestia: Oh, that's a big one. Because I was really dumb. There's a lot of things I wish I could tell my younger self. I think one of the biggest ones is just, first of all, in terms of art specifically, stop stopping. I had this horrible habit of never finishing my projects because I wouldn't like how they were turning out.

[00:48:38] Duchess Celestia: Like I'd get halfway done a piece of art and I would look at it and think, well, this doesn't look good. I'm not even gonna bother finishing it. And now current me I look back on some of those pieces where I did finally decide to push through and finish it. And I'm like, I'm prouder of these than anything else I've created.

[00:48:54] Duchess Celestia: Cuz it's the challenging stuff that's worth finishing and it, and you're never gonna get better at stuff if you don't push yourself through the parts that you suck at. I think that's one of the biggest hurdles I had and also to experiment more. I think with the growth of the internet and how wide of a range of opportunities there really are for creatives out there now. I think one of the biggest problems I had was limiting myself to what I knew. So I would post my art on Instagram and Twitter and leave it there and deviant art naturally cuz I'm 25 so I was like the golden child of the deviant art era but I would post it to like only the stuff that I knew and I would only draw the stuff that I knew.

[00:49:33] Duchess Celestia: So I would draw cute anime girls over and over. Only that. And I would only post it to the same two places cuz it's what I was familiar with. But it wasn't until I started branching out in the stuff that I was creating and the ways that I was trying to connect to people with it, that I actually started finding more growth as an artist and success as a creator.

[00:49:53] Duchess Celestia: And I think a big thing I would tell myself in that regard is just stop waiting until you feel like you're good enough to do the thing. You're never gonna feel like you're good enough to do the thing. You just have to do it anyway. And then prove to yourself that you are.

[00:50:09] Spaceman: Good advice. 

[00:50:10] Halfling: Yes. Advice ab Absolutely. You're just, you're just full of good advice. You're just full of good advice. That's wonderful.

[00:50:17] Duchess Celestia: I certainly hope so.

[00:50:19] Spaceman: We all know that Clark Kent is Superman and Bruce Wayne is Batman. But what most people don't think about is that, Clark Kent is Superman's secret identity, but Bruce Wayne is Batman's secret identity.

[00:50:36] Spaceman: So is Paige, your secret identity, or is Celestia your secret identity?

[00:50:43] Duchess Celestia: that is so interesting. I love that question. Okay.

[00:50:47] Duchess Celestia: Um, I like that. Um, I would say it's a lot more along the lines of, I'm the Clark Kent and Dutchess Celestia is Superman. I'm the one wearing glasses who can't leave her house. I'm just sitting here playing video games, trying to make my thoughts make sense to someone somewhere.

[00:51:06] Duchess Celestia: And Celestia is the scripted well put together , the one who makes it look easier. She's definitely the Superman and I'm definitely hiding in a phone booth.

[00:51:16] Spaceman: Do you ever dress up like Celestia as an OC and go to conventions?

[00:51:21] Duchess Celestia: I'm, oh my gosh, I'm so glad you asked because I'm working on a cosplay for that right now. I'm actually just finishing the skirt pattern at the moment. I'm very excited. This is gonna be my first year. I'm going to OTA Fest and anime in, in Alberta, and I'm gonna go a Celestia to both of them.

[00:51:36] Duchess Celestia: I'm so excited.

[00:51:38] Halfling: Oh, that'll be awesome. That will be awesome. I would love to see a picture. I really would.

[00:51:49] Duchess Celestia: Oh, for sure. I'll post it. I haven't done a new coplay since my misfortune one, and that was last year, a little over a year ago now.

[00:51:56] Duchess Celestia: So, I'm very excited. New cosplay. I'm filling up my closets with old cosplays, but that's fine. I'll just add more

[00:52:05] Halfling: Well, that's what closets are for, right?

[00:52:07] Spaceman: Yeah, we got costumes in our closet, so.

[00:52:10] Halfling: absolutely. So that's one of your, I guess you could call it a project, but what other projects do you have coming up, and do you already have ideas for upcoming episodes? And as a related question, sorry, I'm rambling, but as a related question, how far in advance do you plan episodes?

[00:52:34] Duchess Celestia: Now that can actually depend on a number of factors, so I do plan all of them in advance. They're never really off the cuff. I have this gigantic notebook of just all of my ideas for video. and then I have like scribbled half-finished talking points on each one that I'll eventually revisit and turn into like fully formed thoughts.

[00:52:52] Duchess Celestia: Uh, it's like torn up full of sticky notes. It's like a chaotic mess that only I can actually understand . But in terms of how far in advance I plan, which ones I'm gonna talk about, it's unfortunately, and fortunately kind of, it's a double-edged sword dependent on sponsors because a lot of them have, um deadlines.

[00:53:12] Duchess Celestia: So I have to have a video finished anywhere between like a week two of, I think three days or so before, I can actually post it so that they can approve it or request changes. So usually I like to have a whole month's worth of videos planned at the beginning. So that I can start doing my research and scripting as quickly as possible, just because I never wanna cut it too close with that.

[00:53:37] Duchess Celestia: In the past it was really just before there was any aspect of sponsorship involved. I would just be like, you know, I definitely, I could ramble about this particular thing today. Let's do it. I, it was nice. It was nice, but I am more organized now and I feel like I am better for it, but I do kind of miss that sometimes.

[00:53:56] Duchess Celestia: And in terms of projects, I do have, I, okay. I've been working on a Manga for 10 years. Eventually that'll happen, but certainly not anytime soon cuz I'm, it's so, so complicated. And we're also working on a game which is closer in development, but not that close. What's actually upcoming though, is my web comic, which I've been working on and planning for.

[00:54:20] Duchess Celestia: I'd say about a year now, and I've finally got the first chapter done, and that will be out, I mean, as of when we're talking about this, it'll be out in a couple days. I'm not sure when this is actually gonna, be public, but it'll probably be up by then.

[00:54:36] Spaceman: It'll definitely be out by then.

[00:54:38] Halfling: Yeah. Yeah. , uh,

[00:54:41] Duchess Celestia: Well then, that's I think the biggest project I'm most excited about because it's actually happening.

[00:54:48] Halfling: Oh, well where will people be able to see the comic?

[00:54:54] Duchess Celestia: It'll be on web tune and tapas as well as, eventually once I'm done, like once all of the chapters are finished and the stories concluded, I will be publishing it as well, self-publishing, at which point it'll be available in hard copy on my Etsy site as well as at conventions, but that'll be quite a while in the future still..

[00:55:14] Spaceman: So where can people find out more about you and where are your works available? Ex and especially tell folks, where to find your YouTube.

[00:55:23] Duchess Celestia: My YouTube channel is youtube.com/duchesscelestia and duchesscelestia.carrd.com, which is with two Rs, has all of the links to my social media and all of my art stuff, and I, well, actually, all of my social media's kind of there too is at duchecelestia.com, so you can pretty much find everything there.

[00:55:46] Spaceman: Good deal. We'll make sure that we pass that along in the show notes..

[00:55:51] Halfling: We have really appreciated you taking the time to talk to us today. And we have had a really good time getting to know you and hear about your journey into active fandom and we of course wish you nothing but success in the future.

[00:56:07] Duchess Celestia: Well, thank you so much. This has been really, really cool. This has been a lovely experience talking with you guys as someone with anxiety. You guys make it easy.

[00:56:18] Halfling: Well, we're we're just folks, you know, we're, we're just, we're just fellow nerds. What can we say?

[00:56:24] Duchess Celestia: Well, that's the best.

[00:56:26] Spaceman: yeah, if we weren't so far away, we'd invite you and your wife over to watch anime with us.

[00:56:30] Duchess Celestia: Oh, that would be the dream.

[00:56:34] Spaceman: All right. Well, I wanna thank our listeners today for tuning in, and we hope that everyone has enjoyed and perhaps become inspired by today's guest. Duchess Celestia. We want to give a huge thank you and shout out to Duchess Celestia for joining us today, and this is the Spaceman over and out.