Dru Phillips, Photographer and Cosplayer

[00:00:00] Halfling: Thanks for tuning into the Halfling and the Spaceman :Journeys in Active Fandom. We were having great conversations with people who have turned their love of fandom into something creative. We're fans talking to fans. And joining us today is Dru Phillips. He specializes in various types of photo imagery, including fitness, corporate portrait, and cosplay.

[00:00:27] Halfling: Welcome Dru.

[00:00:28] Dru Phillips: Hey, how's it going,

[00:00:31] Halfling: It's going great. How are you?

[00:00:34] Dru Phillips: man? Not too bad. Can't complain. On the right side of the grass is like some people like to say.

[00:00:38] Halfling: There you go. There, there you go. Well, we, we are very excited to have you. We appreciate you taking the time to, to join us today. 

[00:00:47] Dru Phillips: Thank you.

[00:00:47] Halfling: well let's go ahead and kick it off, with you telling us a little bit about yourself and your background.

[00:00:54] Dru Phillips: Well, I like to say that I'm a regular guy, in a nerd disguise, right? So it's like, um I walk around here and I, and I, and I'll put on my cloak and everybody's like, oh, that's a regular person. I'm like, no, I'm actually a nerd. Gotcha. Right. Uh, so, I have a, a degree in illustration, so I have a bachelor's in illustration and I have my master's in photography.

[00:01:15] Dru Phillips: So, I'm big into both things. Illustration's kinda like my therapy. It's where I go to, to like, decompress and, and just create and just make things up. And then photography is where the money is. It's easy. I can do things, I can redo things really quickly, and it's a lot of corporate work in it.

[00:01:30] Dru Phillips: Photo and video. Outside of that, I'm also into astronomy and politics,

[00:01:35] Halfling: Oh wow.

[00:01:36] Dru Phillips: not necessarily in that order.

[00:01:38] Halfling: Okay. Wow. That's an interesting blend of, of things there. That's pretty cool. Yeah, we talked a little bit before we started the recording, and I, I did not realize that you actually were an illustrator and that was your, kind of, your first love. Okay, so I guess the first question I really would have then knowing that now, is how did you make the jump from illustrations to photography?

[00:02:06] Dru Phillips: Well, that's interesting. I always tell people like, I, I lied my way into photography. So basically, uh, in undergrad I would always go up, uh, to, cause I went to SCAD, I went to Savannah College of Art and Design, and I would always go up into the photo department to try to borrow a camera to shoot reference for my illustrations.

[00:02:24] Dru Phillips: After a while, , the photographs would get so good where I'm like, oh, I don't want to draw this. I kind of want this as it is. So then I was like, you know what, I need to do this consistently. And I was like, okay, well I need to be in the photo program. So I was like, I need to work, I need to work in the, what do they call the cave at the time?

[00:02:41] Dru Phillips: I need to work in the cave. And um, they asked me, they were like, do you know how to use this equipment? And I'm like, yeah, I've been using it for years. I didn't know what I was doing, but I needed to get in there. So I would get in and, uh, once I got the job, it was work study cuz it was college, so it was work study.

[00:02:55] Dru Phillips: I would stay there till late hours of the night till like 3:00 AM And, and other students loved it because they were like, well, I need to work in the dark room, or I need to finish projects and Dru's gonna be there. He's gonna be there all night. So I'm, I love it. So I would stay there and, and touch things and, and try things, make mistakes and just keep on practicing.

[00:03:11] Dru Phillips: So basically it, transitioned for me always trying to draw somebody or, or create something from scratch to saying, I wanna photograph you as you are and, and go from there. So that's why I always say I kind of lied my way into photography.

[00:03:24] Spaceman: Well, it sounds like from your dedication to it, you found your passion.

[00:03:29] Dru Phillips: Yeah, it is. And it's, it's a, it's a lot less weird when, when you, when you find somebody you see interesting and you're like, Ooh, I want to draw you sit down. Right. Versus like, Hey, you

[00:03:39] Halfling: That sounds a little creepy, Dru. I'm just gonna say it sounds a little creepy.

[00:03:44] Dru Phillips: And my voice goes like that too. Whenever I wanna draw them, my voice gets like, lower and crazy.

[00:03:47] Dru Phillips: But it's what, what I, what I try to do is like now, and if I see somebody, I'm like, you have a very interesting look. I would love to photograph you. Here's my Instagram, check out my work, and if you're interested, just send me a message. I don't like, because, you know, I used to say like, yeah, I wanna take your picture.

[00:04:02] Dru Phillips: And the first thing that came outta their mouth was like, uh, uh, well, I'm not taking off my clothes. And I'm like, whoa, whoa. What are you talking about? Like, what are you getting at? No, I'm, I'm, I'm a good man. I would never, you know what I mean? So I'm like, I just wanted, I love your face. I was only interested in your face.

[00:04:22] Halfling: I'm sorry. You, you never know where this show is gonna go.

[00:04:28] Spaceman: No, and and we've been around the convention circuit long enough to know that. Yeah. Well,

[00:04:35] Halfling: you know, I mean, there's there, there's so many cosplay out there at conventions and, and, you know, and, and everybody wants to take pictures of these cosplayers and, you know, and I mean, there's the whole, you know, cosplay is not consent thing.

[00:04:51] Halfling: You've probably probably heard of it, you know, and, and, and so that's, that's, that's hotly debated and, and, you know, thought about. but you know, when you, when you ask somebody's permission, you've gotta accept whatever they say. So if somebody says you no, no, then you just have to say, yeah.

[00:05:09] Halfling: Okay. Well, thank you for your time.

[00:05:11] Dru Phillips: I come, yeah, I come with references. I'll tell people all the time, like, that's why I say, check out my work first, and if you're interested, then hit me. You, you have the power. You come to me and you ask, you can tell me what you want. I'm not pre no pressure, no nothing. I don't even ask you for your information.

[00:05:24] Dru Phillips: Here's mine, and if you're willing, come to me and, and we can work

[00:05:27] Halfling: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, just from looking at your portfolio online, you know, you, you've had a lot of takers over the time that you've been in business, so that's, so

[00:05:39] Dru Phillips: It, it's a lot of word of mouth. And then, you know, once a friend gets worked with you, they, they can kind of like vouch for you and they say, yeah, it's a good person. Look at the work he did. And they go, oh, okay, well cool. If you can vouch for 'em, then that's good. And I, and I want people to be the most comfortable that they can be when they're working with me.

[00:05:54] Dru Phillips: Cuz that's, that's a big part of photography is the comfort level and the relationship you have with your subject. So that's why a lot of times I don't want any pressure, I don't want anything. I'm like, look, hey, I want you to be the most comfortable you can be for this situation. Cuz my goal is to capture you, capture the best you.

[00:06:09] Dru Phillips: And you can't do that if you're feeling nervous and weird.

[00:06:12] Spaceman: And I think that's very important. Especially from a fandom perspective, because everybody is looking for that welcoming environment. And when it's creepy or there's a subtext of something not quite being, consensual, you know, it, it really spoils it for, for everybody, you know, it, it ruins the vibe.

[00:06:32] Halfling: Yeah.

[00:06:33] Dru Phillips: correct.

[00:06:34] Halfling: Well, so we talk about fans becoming creators with that in mind, what, what is your earliest memory of being a fan of something and what, what was that Something?

[00:06:48] Dru Phillips: Um, oh, I love this question. It's not one that I, I normally think about, but I love when I get asked it, you know what I mean? It's kind of like if somebody tells you, you look nice today. You're like, well, I wasn't looking for a compliment, but thank you. Um, so I'm, I'm big into sci-fi, just in general, like, I love sci-fi in general.

[00:07:02] Dru Phillips: I'm a big fan of Star Trek, uh, star Wars, Lord of the Rings. Um, I'm all things superhero, mainly Marvel. Um, I'm into video games, competitive type of video games. Um, I'm into right now, a street fighter and, um, and Mario Cart, um, which I invest a lot of ti time into. I was actually playing before I got on this, uh, this, uh, podcast.

[00:07:22] Dru Phillips: Um, and I'm currently playing as far as like the, the, like RPG, like World Games. I'm playing Horizon Forbidden West, which is, uh, I'm a big. Fan of the character Aloy. Like I heard the story development, the character, the breakdown. I love powerful women in, in, in, um, powerful women in sci-fi and in, and in stories.

[00:07:41] Dru Phillips: It's like my favorite thing. So I'm, I'm really there and I'm, I'm probably gonna get into, um, dead Space. I used to play Dead Space, so I'm probably gonna get into that. And I also still play Pokemon Go, which I know a lot of people kind of get, but I still do that. So like, I've, I'm into this stuff because my earliest memory of this is like, I guess when I was five or six, um I'm, I was a, I'm a huge fan of my brother, my brother's what, what got me into this stuff.

[00:08:05] Dru Phillips: My brother David, he was a, I mean, he's encyclopedic when it comes to like all things nerd. Like, I'll call him, I'm in a debate and I'm like, Hey man, what, what, um which comic was it when Batman did this, that, and the third? And he was like, oh, that was episode six when he did this one. He did that one.

[00:08:22] Dru Phillips: You should also check this out. And I'm like, gosh, how do you know this? Right?

[00:08:24] Halfling: Wow.

[00:08:25] Dru Phillips: So, yeah, he gave me my first Wolverine toy.

[00:08:28] Dru Phillips: I remember the brown suit Wolverine toy, and it had detachable cloths,

[00:08:32] Halfling: oh.

[00:08:33] Dru Phillips: so he gave me that. And then, um, my mom, we, we grew up in New York and my mom, uh, she got me the old, uh, you guys were probably too young, but there was He Man toys back in the day.

[00:08:42] Dru Phillips: There was a

[00:08:42] Halfling: Too young. Do, do you hear him? Do you hear him Spaceman?

[00:08:47] Spaceman: you.

[00:08:48] Dru Phillips: Yeah,

[00:08:49] Halfling: We, we, we'll send the check to you. Okay. You know,

[00:08:55] Dru Phillips: so, yeah, Heman and Voltron were, uh, Wolverine. Heman and Voltron are like my earliest memories of like, uh, being a fan. Like once I seen my brother doing and he draws suit my brother's like a really good artist. So seeing him draw characters, his favorite character is Night Crawler from the X-Men. And seeing him draw characters and I wanted to do it.

[00:09:13] Dru Phillips: He gave me Wolverine. So I, I was a Wolverine fan, currently a Hulk fan. Uh, so.

[00:09:19] Halfling: you guys can't see the t-shirt, but, but Dru's got on an awesome Hulk t-shirt to Hulk out. I love it. That's great. Uh, uh

[00:09:30] Dru Phillips: I would say around five or six is like my earliest memory of being a fan.

[00:09:34] Halfling: okay. And, and, uh, did it influence your early illustrations? Like when you, when you, or, or had you kind of put that aside at that point? You know, um, did you, did you start drawing those characters? 

[00:09:49] Dru Phillips: Oh yes, absolutely. So that's, that's around the time when, um, you know, you'd grab the comic book pages or the, the Flair Ultra cards and you're trying to draw the characters from the cards and recreate 'em. So I was always drawing, recreating the drawings from the characters and the comic books and trying to recreate some of those flair Ultra, I mean, fantastic artwork by like people like Alex Ross and different things like that.

[00:10:11] Dru Phillips: Um, one of my favorite artists is Joe Ware. I don't even know. He did Battle Chases a, a while ago and he did some stuff with Marvel. I think. Um, uh, there's, um, Brian still freeze who still I think works in, in the industry right now. So a lot of these people influence, I would look at their work and like try to recreate some of their stuff.

[00:10:28] Dru Phillips: And then I would, uh, try to make my own things from those things. So like, I'd make my own original character, which is basically like a Spider-Man, like rip off. But it was like my own character, you know what I mean? So, but everybody has to come, you know, start from somewhere and just evolve from there.

[00:10:42] Halfling: Sure, sure. Spaceman. You had a question. You've left him speechless. Congratulations.

[00:10:54] Spaceman: no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You know, we All right. We've, we've touched on how you got started and, you know, we talked about your comics, so how did you see that leading you into your current career? You know, because you, you got that love of these things, these really cool, geeky things, the, the toys, the comics, and then you got your photography, you got your art.

[00:11:20] Spaceman: What was the progression?

[00:11:22] Dru Phillips: Wow. So everything, you know, it's, it's like a stepping stone. It's kind of like, you know, you have one thing, it's a spark that leads to a fire, and if I, if I can draw it. Then I can photograph it, then I can imagine it, then I can put it in video. And now I have a whole story. So now that, that the idea of creation and my dog is like choking.

[00:11:42] Dru Phillips: It is the idea of creation, right? It's like, okay, well how can I just create more? So when you start with, okay, I want to, I want to do illustration, and the illustration part of me is the expressive part. That's like, okay, I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna doodle and I'm gonna draw things. And I, I love creature drawing.

[00:11:58] Dru Phillips: I love, that's why I love monsters. Like, um, uh, the, um, things from, um, monsters, from like, uh, what's the guy, it was Lord of the Rings, and it's the one that Gandalf fought the B 

[00:12:09] Spaceman: the Balrog.

[00:12:09] Dru Phillips: yeah. Oh, 

[00:12:10] Halfling: Bowron. Balrog. Yeah.

[00:12:12] Dru Phillips: The Balrog was such a dope design. I love doing things like that, right? So now it's like, okay, well if I can draw it, then how about I photograph it?

[00:12:20] Dru Phillips: And then if I can con, if I can concept it, I can get somebody to do it in 3d. So now I'm mixing the illustration with the photography. So it, it's, it's, it's pushing that kind of stuff and saying, well, your average photograph is usually boring.

[00:12:34] Dru Phillips: It's straightforward. It's just a picture of something. If you, if you get cosplayers.

[00:12:38] Dru Phillips: How I started in cosplay photography was going to the cons. Seeing these people, seeing their pictures and saying, wow, this is a fantastic costume that you've probably put hours and hours and lots of money into, and you have a very lame shot of it on that con floor. And it's just like, that's it. You're gonna give that magnificent piece of artwork.

[00:12:58] Dru Phillips: That little of respect with a basic shot from your phone. How about, no, how about I now take that, let's bring you into the studio and let me. Do some graphics around it and really emphasize who that character is, because essentially what I'm doing is fashion photography, but with a nerd background. So all these people are making these costumes from, we, a lot of people I know, uh, I work with, um, cosplayer by the name Cutie Pie Sensei, and she makes her stuff from scratch a lot.

[00:13:24] Dru Phillips: And I'm like, you're fashion designer at this point. She designs it. She, she sketches it out. She makes the pattern, she does all the stuff. You're a fashion designer. I'm gonna photograph it like it's a fashion piece. However, we're gonna take that a step further. So now, if you're Asoka Tano from Star Wars, I'm gonna, let's put you on a planet.

[00:13:42] Dru Phillips: Let's put you on a Tatooine or somewhere, and then let's get your light, your, like your lightsabers. You're about to do battles, so let's make those lightsabers light up. So now it's taking that regular basic shot and pushing it to where now the nerds like you and I can go, oh, I feel like, I feel like I'm really there, man.

[00:13:59] Dru Phillips: If I want you to feel like it's a pa, like you're off the page of a comic book. Does that make sense?

[00:14:02] Halfling: Yeah. Oh,

[00:14:03] Spaceman: makes perfect

[00:14:04] Dru Phillips: Yeah, so that's how I'm trying to, I'm trying to take it, yeah, I'm trying to take it to that step further because again, photography in and of itself a lot of times can be boring, and it's just, most of the times you're just taking a picture.

[00:14:16] Dru Phillips: I'm trying to turn it into a photograph and there's a difference.

[00:14:19] Halfling: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, that's one of the things that I, I'd mentioned before is, is looking at, at the photographs you've done for, you know, for corporate and, and for your fitness. Especially the fitness, because you get such a sense of movement and power within these individuals that it's just, it's really just, just remarkable what you can do.

[00:14:41] Halfling: And that's not even, that's not even ta I don't, I mean, maybe I'm wrong about this, but it doesn't seem like even that's taking it to the level that you're talking about with, you know, with like the cosplay and, and you're grinning and you're smiling and you're, you are shaking your head. So, so I guess I'm right that you know, you, you, you gotta hold 'em back on, on them, aren't you?

[00:15:04] Dru Phillips: but you kind of have to, because if, if I'm shooting something for like, well, it's, it's changing now, but if I'm shooting something for Nike or, or Reebok or Adidas, they're like, uh, can you show my product? And that's it. You know what I mean? This clean shot of this, this person with a, with a fantastic body by society standards, um, you know, like this clean shot of that, and then give that to me.

[00:15:25] Dru Phillips: Whereas in cosplay, I can, I can set this person, I can give them energy. Like if, if this person's in space doing a, a star fire from like, from DC um, team Titans, I'm like, I can put them in space and put powers around them and stuff like that and not worry about, oh, well I have to make sure the product is shown perfectly.

[00:15:41] Dru Phillips: You know what I mean? I'm, I'm taking it to that level and I wanna make it believable. Like, ultimately it's like, if you look at the movies, um, like the, the, the, the latest, um, like Marvel movies and DC movies, the things that in, in, in, that get you the most is when you feel like that's really happening.

[00:15:55] Dru Phillips: Like, you feel like the, the powers are really coming from that person. So when I'm doing the photograph, I want that same feel. So I can't really always do that with the fitness photography. So, or, or even like my corporate headshots or portraits. So I do have that escape. To do that in the cosplay world and in my cosplay photography.

[00:16:12] Dru Phillips: But people see, it's like, um, they see the cosplay stuff and they're like, well, if you can do that, you definitely can dial back and do something for me. We know you can do the most. It's like, you can bring it down. It's like if you're a singer, they're like, can you bellow out a big note? If you can do that, that means you can bring it down.

[00:16:29] Dru Phillips: But if you're like, oh, I can't sing, you're like, well, if you can't bring it up, you're like, oh, you can't use it. You know, start, start high and then dial it back in. And I think that's what the cosplay photography does for me, is it allows me to do show. I, I have no restrictions when it comes to cosplay photo photography.

[00:16:44] Dru Phillips: I have no restrictions. Usually it's like the more the better.

[00:16:47] Halfling: Yeah.

[00:16:47] Halfling: If 

[00:16:48] Spaceman: gonna be passionate. Be passionate,

[00:16:49] Halfling: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:16:51] Halfling: And that, and that really, that really shines through in, in the way you talk about it. It's, so that's, that's awesome to have such a passion for what you do. Um, when did you get your big break, I guess you would call it? Or, and, and what was your big break?

[00:17:11] Dru Phillips: Um, I'm still waiting on my big break. I've, yeah, when you see, when you see my name at the bottom of the, the, the poster at the, at the movie theater, when you go watch that Marvel movie, that'll be my big break. I, I, I've, um, I've had the opportunity, um, and I've been blessed to work with some phenomenal people.

[00:17:28] Dru Phillips: Um, I've been on some great sets. I work in TV and film as well, so I do a lot of behind the scenes on TV and film. So I, I work with celebrities and, and different things like that. So, But it's not for me. It's not that big break. The big break is, is when I really have that, that one piece of artwork. And again, I look at this stuff, it's commercial work, you know, you get paid for it, but as an artist, there's still that feeling.

[00:17:50] Dru Phillips: You get like, I can bang out photographs all day. Like I can light with my eyes closed. That's, it's not as satisfactory as like that one art piece that you put out there that you're also getting recognition for. It's like hanging your, your piece is hanging in the MoMA. So me doing a cover for like a, a, a big movie premiere or something like that, like, you know, the, the Asoka TV show on Disney Plus is about to drop.

[00:18:13] Dru Phillips: If I were to photograph that cover, no, that would've been my big break. So yeah, I, I've, I don't know. I guess if, if I could say one thing, To be my big break. It might have been when I photographed, uh, for Heroes of Cosplay. I was, um, it was the, the reality show Heroes of Cosplay that was on the Sci-fi network for a while.

[00:18:34] Dru Phillips: And they, they brought me in as a featured photographer. So my position was to photograph while I had, uh, it was Ricky Lako Ya Ya. Uh, shoot, I'm forgetting, uh, a few other names of some, um, uh, pretty popular, uh, cosplay and I was photographing them and I was like, you know, the guy that came to the studio and showed up.

[00:18:55] Dru Phillips: So that was pretty good. Um, and got my name out there pretty much. And, um, you know, working with, uh, Yaya ha, I don't know, everybody knows Yaya Ha. So that was, that was phenomenal. She's such a nice lady.

[00:19:05] Dru Phillips: Um, super talented. Ricky Laco, same thing. Um, so it's like, oh, okay, cool. Well, I guess I can call that a big break, but personally, I think the artistic side of me still wants to see that big art piece somewhere for what I like to do.

[00:19:20] Dru Phillips: So if I did a poster that was, um, nerd based, so around superheroes or something 

[00:19:26] Dru Phillips: like that we're fantastic. Everything else will be good too. But I think my aim, if I had something out like passion, it'd be something nerd based.

[00:19:33] Spaceman: You know, one of the things that I, I like to say is that we have work that feeds our body and then we have work that feeds our soul. And that's exactly what you're talking about.

[00:19:45] Dru Phillips: That's, Ooh, I like that. I need to put that on a t-shirt, man. I gotta write that down.

[00:19:53] Halfling: yeah. Yeah. Well, you know the spaceman in this full of wisdom.

[00:19:57] Spaceman: And, and I'm a, I'm a size two x just in case.

[00:20:01] Dru Phillips: Hey, you know I got you. I got, I'm, I'm, that's another thing I'm planning on doing. That's the next, uh, uh, next thing I wanna do is I'm doing a t-shirt line, uh, like some. Animated, not animated, but some illustration based things. And um, cause I like to draw these little characters and stuff and I'm like, I do, I have a, like my, when I, when I, whenever I shoot, I have a, my logo says cos play.

[00:20:23] Dru Phillips: So it's like C O S with a play button, 

[00:20:25] Dru Phillips: so it's cosplay. so I have that logo and I was gonna put it on a shirt, but I was like, that's boring. It's, you know, straightforward. I wanna do things around it. So I'm gonna do some kind of like cool graphic or something that relates to the nerds. I haven't figured out what that is yet.

[00:20:37] Dru Phillips: Um, something that can be relatable around like, all around, cuz not everybody's in the Star Wars. Not everybody's in the Star Trek. Not everybody's into Marvel. So I don't wanna just label it like, oh I don't wanna put like a, a, a Mandalorian helmet on it and be like, yeah, 

[00:20:49] Dru Phillips: this is it. Or you know, put some lightsabers around it.

[00:20:51] Dru Phillips: Cuz not everybody's into that. But I'm still trying to figure out what all nerds have in common. I don't know what it is. It's like, maybe it's Poptarts or something. Cause we all eat poptarts, but I, I dunno, but I, I wanna know what all nerds have in common.

[00:21:04] Spaceman: You know, I've actually met nerds that don't like Mountain Dew, so you know,

[00:21:07] Spaceman: you can't even, 

[00:21:08] Dru Phillips: is blasphemy.

[00:21:10] Spaceman: I know, I know.

[00:21:12] Dru Phillips: No Mountain Dew, no Poptarts or no Doritos.

[00:21:16] Halfling: Uh, uh,

[00:21:18] Spaceman: Well, I've drank my amount of Mountain Dew and I've eaten enough Pop Tarts and Doritos. Well,

[00:21:25] Halfling: Guilty. Guilty is charged. Guilty is object. Uh, well, so I think maybe we talked a little bit about you getting how you got into, you know, photographing, cosplay, but could you just kind of started going to conventions and then that sort of sparked that interest? Or was, was, did somebody approach you and say, Hey, can you do this?

[00:21:49] Halfling: Would you, would you be willing to do this?

[00:21:51] Dru Phillips: Yeah, so that was the exact opposite. I actually stumbled. I, I accidentally went to Dragoncon one year. Um,

[00:21:58] Halfling: does somebody accident? I'm sorry.

[00:22:01] Dru Phillips: I'll tell you. So, all right. So I just moved to Atlanta and I'm walking downtown, and I always went to the underground mall to go play Marvel versus Capcom. Remember, remember I told you I love fighting games?

[00:22:11] Dru Phillips: So I was going to the underground mall, got off the train down at Five Points, which of course, you know, the Dragon com parade comes through that way. And I'm, I'm walking up the, the, uh, escalator or the steps or whatever, and I'm like, is that a Stormtrooper at a t m? So I'm like, okay, wait, wait, wait. I know Atlanta's weird, but that, then I look and I'm like, oh, snap, there's this, oh, is that Lou Ferrigno on a car?

[00:22:31] Dru Phillips: So my thing is, I'm like, I'm like, whoa. So I, I just follow the crowd and I go, and they're in the Marriott. They're in the Marriott off Peachtree Street, and I'm like, whoa. I'm like, whoa, this is all cool, man. What is happening? Am I dreaming? So I, you know, I walk around for, um, for the day and I ask 'em questions, and I go back the next day and I just start trying to like network with people.

[00:22:53] Dru Phillips: I'm like, Hey, what's this? What's that? Of course me being, me being new people are like, we don't know you and you, you, you're not dressed like one of us. You don't even have on a nerd shirt, so, uh, we don't trust you. So, you know, it was one of those things. So, After stumbling upon that, and then the next year knowing it's happening, going there, I run in, I try to run into a few people, one of which was, BarrFoxx.

[00:23:16] Dru Phillips: And funny enough, he'll tell this story differently, but BarrFoxx actually shaded me and he was hanging out with Yes, he did. Don't he put on that little sweet smile and he got a little goatee. Don't, don't fall for it. He, I, I, I try to, I try to talk to him to photograph him, and he, he pushed me to the side and was like, Uhuh.

[00:23:36] Dru Phillips: And I was like, Aw, I, I was hurt. But now, as you can see, we're kind of besties now, but when we first started, I don't think he really trusted me too much, but eventually they gave me, they gave me my chance to, to do it. And what pushed me to do it was seeing how bad their photographs were. Honestly, that's what it was.

[00:23:53] Dru Phillips: It was really just seeing. How bad they it. And they were happy with it. People were happy. They were like, yeah, it's a picture of me and my costume. And I'm like, yeah, but could it be so, it could be so much more. So I approached a few people, finally got net, got to the right people to network with, and then, you know, it's all history from there.

[00:24:09] Dru Phillips: Everybody just told me, they put me onto their people and their people put me onto their people and just started making connections.

[00:24:15] Spaceman: Yeah. You know, the thing about cosplay is a lot of, a lot of, well, for lack of a better word, mundanes don't understand the level of dedication that the cosplay put into these outfits. You know, it's not just like sewing a pattern. You have to handcraft all the ornamentation hours and hours and hours of work.

[00:24:37] Spaceman: So I, you know, I, even if as a non cos player, I appreciate the work you do, trying to highlight that 

[00:24:43] Dru Phillips: Oh yeah. I,

[00:24:43] Dru Phillips: I, 

[00:24:44] Dru Phillips: I 

[00:24:44] Spaceman: of its craft. Yeah. 

[00:24:46] Dru Phillips: Yeah, I, I literally try to get in and whenever I do a shoot, a lot of times for the cosplay, I would get detailed shots because I'm like, yeah, you might not put this online, but you might want this for you cuz this is your work. And it, it, it is fantastic. And it's, I mean, I've seen some things with, um, I actually did, um, a company out of Germany, purchase one of my, my cosplay images of, um, I did a, it was a star?

[00:25:08] Dru Phillips: No, no, no, no, no. It was a lantern and it was, the pink lantern. I can't remember what, what emotion that is, but it was like love or something like that. But they purchased it for a brand of Worbla and Worbla is what they did. They used to like build armor and stuff before they got 3D printing 

[00:25:24] Spaceman: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:24] Dru Phillips: know, the phone Worbla.

[00:25:26] Dru Phillips: So a company in Germany had my image on their cosplay Worbla packaging for a, a long time, which was pretty cool. But yeah, the, the, the kind of detail that these people put into it and the hours of work and, and a lot of the cosplay is functional as well. Oh my gosh. I have to give it the same respect that you've given it, in my opinion.

[00:25:46] Spaceman: Okay. Well, talking about inspiration, you know, one of the things we'd like to ask folks that come on the show is who inspired you? Who was the the one individual, or maybe not just one, but, but you, you got your, you drew your inspiration from, who was that, that spark of inspiration.

[00:26:04] Dru Phillips: Yeah. Well, I love that question and, and, and it's one of those things you have to sit back and think about because inspiration comes from so many different places. And me being, when it comes to like, Cosplay photography. There weren't too many people like me doing it that I've seen when I started doing it.

[00:26:25] Dru Phillips: Like honestly, I was one of the very few black male cosplay photographers that I knew of when I started doing it. So I kind of had a niche, but I didn't really have anybody to look at to reference off of. Now there were a few other people doing it, but my goal was to, my goal was different from everybody else's goal.

[00:26:42] Dru Phillips: I wanted my stuff, my cosplay work to look like it was on the cover of a Vogue magazine. Right. Versus, versus it just being a, a picture of a person in, in costume. So it was hard to find inspiration from other individuals. Now, one person that was not in the cosplay, that was a huge influence for me. And he's, even the, the reason why I am the way I am today is a guy named Steve Eichman, and he's actually, he was a professor at SCAD, but he was very different.

[00:27:10] Dru Phillips: Like he was, he. He was very, he was a nerd, but he was like an actual nerd, not a comic nerd. Like he was an astrophysicist, like good stuff for NASA nerd, where like he would talk to you and like, he taught me how to, he taught me What happened in Trenoble, because I was playing with a magnet near my phone and he was like, oh, I'm not a rocket scientist, but you probably shouldn't put that magnet near your phone, and I'm a rocket scientist.

[00:27:35] Dru Phillips: Right? So he was a huge inspiration, very humble, the way he, he would always like fall back and, and put his self second so other people can feel better. Even if he was the smartest person in the room, he'd never made anybody feel that way. He was like, yeah, nah, he made, he made other people feel like he was kind of like stupid, but it was fun for him.

[00:27:52] Dru Phillips: You know what I mean? So, even the way I am today, I try not to go into situations, you know, with the big head or, or with my chest stick. And I, I try to be as humble as possible, even if I feel like I know the most in the room because of how Steve Eisman was and even how he talked to people and how he treated people.

[00:28:07] Dru Phillips: Um, he's also a photographer and the reason why he got into photography is because he would always photograph like Nebula and photograph different like stars and stuff. And he was like, wow, why, why am I so interested in that? And he was like, well, the Hubble. Telescope is basically a giant camera. So it's like, well, okay, cool.

[00:28:24] Dru Phillips: I can, I can do both. You know what I mean? So I would say my biggest inspiration is probably Steve Eisman, just in general. Um, but as far as like the cosplay world, I, I, you know, thinking on that question, it, it's hard for me to find somebody that I would say inspires my work. Now, there are people who I look at that, I'm like, oh, you make me wanna work harder.

[00:28:46] Dru Phillips: But there's nobody that I'm like, I want to be like, or I aspire to, to do, like, does that make sense? If that makes sense.

[00:28:54] Spaceman: No, no, it makes perfect sense. You had mentioned that you wanted to bring that style of fashion photography to cosplay, which is something I really hadn't seen a lot of, especially in the earlier days of. Well of, of what we now call cosplay, uh, you know, cos costuming and wearing costumes and costume contests have been around, you know, forever,

[00:29:17] Dru Phillips: Right.

[00:29:18] Spaceman: all the way back to the masquerade balls of, you know, the 15th and 16th century.

[00:29:22] Dru Phillips: Yeah. 

[00:29:24] Dru Phillips: Yeah. And that's, that's funny too. And I, I, I laugh at, you know, we, we call, well what'd you, I forgot what, how'd you call 'em? Not commoners. You said the,

[00:29:30] Dru Phillips: uh, the mundane, they, they look at you and they, they look at you and they judge you and they're like, oh, weirdo, why you dressed like that? All while wearing a full-on face paint and their favorite football team, cuz they're going to the game.

[00:29:44] Dru Phillips: And you're like, so we're 

[00:29:45] Dru Phillips: both cosplay. It's just that you think yours is cooler. Right. You know what I mean? So it's, and then during Dragoncon, I mean that's, that's a crazy time. So I can see, like, you have, you have the football, you have Pride Weekend, you have Dragoncon, you have all kind of other sporting events.

[00:30:02] Dru Phillips: So everybody's dressed up. I'm like, we're all cosplaying today. I don't care what you say. We are all cosplaying.

[00:30:07] Spaceman: That's it. We're all cosplaying.

[00:30:09] Halfling: that, that's right. And, you know, we, talked early on when we first started this podcast that there's so many different types of fandom. There. There is no right or wrong to, to fandom. I mean, p you know, the football the football fanatics have just as much right to their fandom and to their, you know, dressing up in the jerseys and painting their faces and, you know, tailgating all this stuff.

[00:30:36] Halfling: They have just as much right to that as, you know, as, as BarrFoxx does, dressing up in some of the incredible, you know, incredible cosplay outfits that he, that he does.

[00:30:48] Spaceman: I, I, I want to add a caveat to that, as long as they're not beating you up and sticking you in a locker,

[00:30:55] Dru Phillips: Hey, I don't know, I don't know if you've seen some of these cosplayers these days, but they are not to be messed with. Like, there's people, like, uh, there's a guy I know named Jonathan 

[00:31:04] Spaceman: mm-hmm. 

[00:31:05] Dru Phillips: and he does like Wolverine, Superman, and all these characters. And Jonathan is jacked, like bodybuilder jack, and actually he's a real martial artist and stuff.

[00:31:14] Dru Phillips: So like the cosplay of, of yesteryear. Oh no, we're not like that now. Like we, we're real, we're real people who just are now able to show you what our fandom is. Oh. But we're, we're still real people, so 

[00:31:28] Spaceman: Oh good. 

[00:31:28] Dru Phillips: lockers for us.

[00:31:31] Spaceman: Out of the locker.

[00:31:33] Dru Phillips: Right. More lockers.

[00:31:35] Halfling: Well, have you ever done any cosplaying yourself?

[00:31:39] Dru Phillips: Oh, absolutely. I actually, I used to work with a organization here in Atlanta called, heroes Alliance. It was Heroes Alliance of Georgia, and it was a nonprofit, uh, you know, charity organization of, of people who would, would, uh, costume for, for kids for like the, children's Healthcare of Atlanta. Or we used to do the Buddy Walk of Atlanta that benefited children with Down's Syndrome.

[00:32:00] Dru Phillips: So my first thing after I met the people at Dragoncon and got to know people and, and became friends with them, they introduced me to that and I went in as a photographer. So I would go and I remember the reaction that some of these kids gave the heroes when they walked in. Like, these kids are coming in with like their IVs and they're coming in.

[00:32:20] Dru Phillips: Like one kid had like his leg on backwards because he was going through some special surgery, so they had to wheel him in and for like five minutes. They forgot how sick they were for five minutes. They forgot they were, they were in pain for five minutes. The world wasn't ending. All they saw was, whoa, there's Batman.

[00:32:36] Dru Phillips: Whoa, there's Superman. Whoa, there's Wonder Woman. So when I saw that reaction, I mean, you, you had to turn your back for a second. Like, oh, okay, let's get this together. Because these kids for this moment are like, I'm in my fantasy and I don't remember. I have cancer and I don't remember. I have leukemia. I don't remember.

[00:32:53] Dru Phillips: I have all these things. I just, I just see Superman and Spider-Man, and I wanna hold his hand, right? I see Wonder Woman. I wanna hold her hand. So when I saw that, I was like, man, you know what? 

[00:33:01] Spaceman: what?

[00:33:02] Dru Phillips: I have the costume, I have to do it because I, I, I want to create these reactions in these kids. I want to create not just kids, actually in people.

[00:33:11] Dru Phillips: I want to create this reaction in people. So, I, I got with the organization and I was like, well, who don't you have? And they were like, well, and I like to be Canon. Like, that's another thing, not the harp on BarrFoxx, but he hates the word canon. I love the word canon. If I'm gonna cosplay, I have to cosplay Canon.

[00:33:25] Dru Phillips: So I was like, let me get John Stewart Green Lantern. And I was gonna, I, so I cosplay as um, green Lantern, so John Stewart, green Lantern. And, um, the next one I'm working on now, oh, I also do Black Panthers. So Marvel, will send me, sometimes I do character appearances for Marvel, so they'll send me a costume.

[00:33:41] Dru Phillips: So I do, I do Black Panther. And then for me, I'm working, I don't know if you can see, well, I mean people on the podcast can't see, but I'm working on. Mandalorian, uh, costume is gonna be next. And I, and I love the Mandalorians because, you know, you never, you don't know who's under the mask. Like Mandalorian can be anyone.

[00:33:57] Dru Phillips: You don't, you don't know. It's just, we're all it, this is the way we're all one group, so I love that about them. So I do costume, I also have a Spider-Man costume. Um, but I, I'll bring that out every now and then just for fun. But mainly my who I cosplay as is, John Stewart Green

[00:34:13] Dru Phillips: Lantern. 

[00:34:14] Spaceman: Okay.

[00:34:15] Halfling: So, do you do it just for the charities or do you, do you do it at conventions 

[00:34:21] Dru Phillips: Yeah, so I'll do it at convention, um, every now and then cuz during conventions I'm usually photographing because I love to just capture the event. But every now and then, like I'll put the camera down and I'll jump in the costume. So like one Dragon Con I remember it was, it was me, BarrFoxx, um, super, super fit with re um, Dean's List.

[00:34:41] Dru Phillips: Larry loves cos it was a bunch of us and we all did all the lanterns. So we had like a whole lantern core, which was awesome. It was, it was so. Dope that we all got together. So I put the camera down to do that. And I think I did Spider-Man that day too. Like I went back to, uh, BarrFoxx's hotel room so I can change.

[00:34:56] Dru Phillips: And then did Spider-Man and then, uh, did Green Lantern for that. So yeah, at Conns I'm mostly photographing. But every now and then I will jump into a costume. But for me, the important part is capturing cuz you know, it's the fleeting moments that for that are important to me.

[00:35:11] Dru Phillips: It's like, okay, I want to have that memory. Like, my memory personally is not that great. So photography is also a way for me to keep up and keep a sane mind. Cause I'm like, did that really happen? I'm like, oh, there's a picture of it. And, and I can remember that moment. So if you show me a picture, then I can recall it.

[00:35:25] Dru Phillips: But if you just ask me about it, I'm like, I really don't remember. Like, I don't remember most of my childhood, but I remember when my brother gave me that toy and I remember when I had another, you know, you know, so photography is more than just taking pictures. It's really like helpful like mentally in like, for like therapy in, in a sense.

[00:35:42] Halfling: yeah. It's, preserving memories. I mean, you know, and Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, and that's, that's something that people who. Who are caretakers of patients with either dementia or, you know, or Alzheimer's, they find they find very useful. They, you know, they bring out old, old, you know, old albums, you know, that they can share pictures with and everything.

[00:36:06] Halfling: So, you know, so I, I understand perfectly what you're talking about that, and, and that's a wonderful, it's, it's not just a wonderful gift to give yourself, but it, it's also a gift for other people. You know, you share, you share that with, so, so that's, that's wonderful.

[00:36:23] Dru Phillips: I remember I photographed, I like to photograph too at like, senior Citizen's homes. And, uh, my sister was like, she was like the activities director at a, at a senior citizen's home. So I would go there and I would hang out with them, talk with them, dance with 'em, and, and do and do for, uh, photo shoots with him.

[00:36:36] Dru Phillips: And, you know, it's, it's sad because, I mean, it's not sad. It was, it was a fun time. But then, you know, you go back and somebody's like, oh yeah, that was the last picture of Nana. She loved it. And that's, we the only, that's the only picture we have of nana. And I'm like, wow, I was able to do that for you. You know, it's happy and sad at the same time.

[00:36:55] Dru Phillips: But, you know, it's one of those things where that, that memory, that moment, that photograph, you can always go back to me and remember it. Like, um, my mom passed away from ovarian cancer, and I'm like, man, I can, I can go back to pictures though and remember those pictures. And if I didn't have pictures, I was like, what, what else besides the memory in my head?

[00:37:12] Dru Phillips: What do I, what else do I have to hold onto? So I, that's why I always encourage people to take pictures, take, go, go crazy. Take as much, even if the moment seems silly to you, take a picture at Dragoncon. I'm not just gonna take the perfect stage picture of you and your costume. Maybe you're sitting down laughing with your friends.

[00:37:27] Dru Phillips: It's like, oh, look at all those storm troopers laughing. Ha ha ha. But he has his helmet off. And that's that moment you're like, oh man, remember Dragon Con 2006. Oh, look at this picture. Let's reminisce on it, because we have that physical evidence. So that's why, again, at cons, a lot of times I'm trying to document, it's, it's, it's to be good at my craft, but it's also to create these lasting memories for people.

[00:37:49] Spaceman: well, talking about the importance of photography. I lost my best friend from childhood about two years ago, and the only photo I have of him was him over at our house playing a tabletop role playing game with us. And yeah, I, and I think about all the photographs I've taken over the years of vacations and things like that, and forget to take, take photographs of the people around me and you know, because those memories need to be preserved.

[00:38:18] Spaceman: And, you know, when somebody passes you, you know, you lose that chance.

[00:38:24] Dru Phillips: Oh yeah. And, and, and you know, that's, that's one of those things. Um, I lost, I lost my best friend last year. Oh this, this 2023.

[00:38:33] Dru Phillips: So 2021 actually 2021. She passed away unexpectedly, but I'm a big like Disney head. So right before she did, I went down to Disney with another one of my nerd friends and we were, cuz we both love Disney.

[00:38:49] Dru Phillips: And she came to visit cuz she, she lives right, she lived right next door to Disney. Like she lived right next door to Magic Kingdom and she came to visit me. But me being me, I'm like, well I'm not gonna take a lot of pictures with you cause I'm al I always. See you and I'm gonna come back here in another like month Anyway, now looking back, I wish I would've just captured everything at every moment, you know what I mean?

[00:39:08] Dru Phillips: All the pictures. I have one picture of me and her. Cause I took a picture when I arrived, you know, in the car. It's like a selfie, like all of us here. And that's the only one I have. But it's like, you know, hindsight's 2020. But that's why I usually try to encourage people from now, it's not, it's not doom and gloom, but it's kinda like, hey, you know, give people their flowers while they're here.

[00:39:28] Dru Phillips: You know what 

[00:39:28] Dru Phillips: I mean? Don't wait later and be like, man, we should've just, it won't hurt you to snap a selfie or you know, do a funny little video. Like, I just encourage people to do that. And you know it, as you said, with your story, with your best friend, which I'm sorry to hear it's, man, I'm just thinking about it now.

[00:39:41] Dru Phillips: Like, I could have taken so many more pictures and just had those memories. I mean, maybe it's a selfish thing. Maybe we're like, I want to have those pictures for me. But maybe it's, it's, you know, as humans we forget that 2020 messed us up. We forgot how connect, how to connect. You know what I mean? It's like, so pictures, everything is, you can connect through a picture maybe.

[00:39:59] Spaceman: Yeah, and if you're a geek or a creator, you know there's always coming on The Halfling and the Spaceman,

[00:40:04] Dru Phillips: Right.

[00:40:07] Halfling: Yeah. We'll, we'll hopefully preserve all of all. Recordings, you know, in perpetuity. I can't speak today for this evening. It's actually evening, isn't it? 

[00:40:18] Spaceman: It's evening for 

[00:40:19] Halfling: us. 

[00:40:19] Halfling: Yes. Yeah.

[00:40:21] Dru Phillips: Oh, man.

[00:40:22] Halfling: Um, well, you know, talking about, you know, talking about the importance of, you know, photographing people, is there one person that you haven't had the opportunity to photograph that you would love to?

[00:40:39] Dru Phillips: Um, y well, in, um, 

[00:40:41] Halfling: There's probably a bunch.

[00:40:43] Dru Phillips: well, I'm thinking in the, in the nerd community, in the cosplay world, I'm fortunate enough to have worked with like a lot of the big names that, that I, I have been like, I am fans of. So like, um, CutiePieSensei. Riki LeCotey, Yaya Han, of course BarrFox, which is, he's super cool.

[00:40:58] Dru Phillips: Like I, I, I work with these people, so it's hard to say like that. That's who I would've wanted to photograph. But if outside of the, the nerd community, there's a, there's an actress by the name of Florence Kasumba, Florence Kasumba, I hope I'm saying it correctly, but she was in Black Panther and she's one of the Dora Milaje, and she was, Okoye second in command. Now, if you guys, have you guys seen, uh Captain America: The Winter Soldier?

[00:41:24] Halfling: Yes.

[00:41:25] Dru Phillips: Okay. So she was the one that was walking with Black Panther, and she talked to Black Widow and she was like, move, or You will be moved. She was, she was that one.

[00:41:32] Halfling: Oh, she, the gen, the general, right? 

[00:41:35] Halfling: She 

[00:41:35] Halfling: is, 

[00:41:36] Dru Phillips: well, she's second in command to the general.

[00:41:38] Halfling: Oh, okay.

[00:41:40] Dru Phillips: Yeah, the general, the general is Okoye and then her character is Ayo. 

[00:41:45] Dru Phillips: In the in, yeah. And man, her features, and I love her bald head and just her bone

[00:41:51] Halfling: She, she is striking. She, she is incredibly Yes, yes,

[00:41:56] Dru Phillips: Yes. I would love to fo like, that's somebody where I'm like, I would, I, I wanna see in person and it's the artistic part of me comes out.

[00:42:04] Dru Phillips: It's no longer like, oh my God, you're a Black Panther. It's like, no, it's you. That the structure of you, I, I just love the way you look. And it's just, I want to capture that. I wanna light it and I wanna, I wanna photograph it. You know what I mean? That's the artist in me is wanting to really capture that.

[00:42:19] Dru Phillips: So yeah, Florence Kasumba is one of the ones that, if I had an ideal person, I would photograph it. Definitely would be her.

[00:42:27] Spaceman: All right. I have a question that I normally reserve for writers, but I'm gonna lay it on you.

[00:42:33] Dru Phillips: Oh, lay it on me.

[00:42:34] Spaceman: If you had to pick one example of your work that says, this is the window into my soul, what would it be?

[00:42:42] Dru Phillips: Ooh, now are we talking about I, is it photograph and drawing?

[00:42:47] Spaceman: Everything you've ever done?

[00:42:50] Dru Phillips: Oh my.

[00:42:53] Spaceman: What 

[00:42:53] Spaceman: says

[00:42:53] Dru Phillips: my. 

[00:42:54] Halfling: you've just blown his mind.

[00:42:56] Dru Phillips: That's like trying to pick your favorite child, you know, you have one, but it's hard. Um, man. Ooh, window into my soul photograph. That honestly, I think, has stumped me because in my head right now, it's going like I, it's like a Rolodex in my head.

[00:43:15] Dru Phillips: Like I'm going through my head and looking at pictures and trying to see which one actually stands out and jumps out to me as a photograph that I'm like, oh man, that's it. Um, there, oh, well. Okay. Okay. Okay. The nerd me, I photographed, I photographed CutiePieSensei as, uh Asoka Tano from Star Wars and Asoka Tano is like my favorite character in Star Wars.

[00:43:37] Dru Phillips: She's, you know, the only close next is the, the, the Mandalorians. But the, the a so Katano, so I did photograph one shot of her where the lighting, the composition, the look, everything about it. You're like, that's a Dru style photograph. Like that, that is the one. However, when I say that's the one that looks into my soul, I don't know, 

[00:43:58] Dru Phillips: because the one, it probably honestly wouldn't even be a picture that has to do anything with nerdom.

[00:44:03] Dru Phillips: It's probably one of my street photographs

[00:44:05] Dru Phillips: and I do a lot, like I got my ma when I, when I got my master's, I did my whole thesis in street photography and there's certain street shots that. That I took and I had to engulf myself inside of different, different cultures. So most of my work was done in Hong Kong, in, in, in, um, back when I was doing my thesis.

[00:44:23] Dru Phillips: And I did it on film. So there was a lot. You had, you know, I, you have a sh I'm doing street photography with film with a four by five medium format camera. So I don't know if you guys remember the old cameras with the bellows and you gotta put the thing over 

[00:44:35] Dru Phillips: your head. So I'm walking around 

[00:44:37] Halfling: Right. 

[00:44:38] Dru Phillips: with that.

[00:44:39] Halfling: Mm.

[00:44:40] Dru Phillips: So already black dude walking around Hong Kong with this big old camera, I stick out like a sore thumb. Right? But it's still to, to, to capture life as it is with all these things that I have bringing attention to me without trying to disturb the environment. There'd be one picture from my street photography series that might.

[00:45:01] Dru Phillips: Look into my soul. And the reason why is because that shot happened very slowly. And that might not make sense to everybody, but to a photographer, it might. When you say that shot happened slowly, everything we have now is instant gratification, right? Henry Car Buram, who's like one of the masters of street photography or one of the grandfathers godfathers of street photography, he said he, he honed the term the decisive moment, which is that one moment.

[00:45:24] Dru Phillips: That's 1 1 20 fifth of a second, right? So boom, you have it, it's there. With our phones and with our digital cameras, everything happens instantly, right? It's like, boom, it's there, it's there. But with film, I gotta slow down. I gotta set up, I gotta prepare for the moment, and then I have to essentially become invisible.

[00:45:41] Dru Phillips: So I, I, I look as that, that, that whole experience to capture one shot, it took me an hour and. 35 minutes to capture 1, 1 20 fifth of a second. That's when I would feel like, ooh. So that series of street shots would be, I'd have to pick one from there that would really look into me personally, look into my soul as an artist, as a person, just in general as a human, walking on this, you know, blue spaceship.

[00:46:10] Dru Phillips: It's that slowing down and really trying to look at us as a species, us as a, as a collective, us as as humans, and like, why is it that we're interesting? And then you ask the question, why is it that we're here? Like, you look at us and you see people moving, and once you slow down, you start to think about all these things.

[00:46:31] Dru Phillips: And that's why I'm like, oh, that one really digs into me because it's not just like a click, click, click, I'm going going, it's not, I'm asking myself these questions. I'm, I'm having a conversation with myself. Somebody told me I'm not crazy because I don't answer myself. So they said, you talk to yourself, but don't answer yourself.

[00:46:45] Dru Phillips: So I'm asking these questions and I'm really trying to explore. This, this idea of what is, what is happening in, in our reality?

[00:46:56] Spaceman: it's a little self-discovery then.

[00:46:59] Dru Phillips: Yes. Yes. Very much so. Very much so. And I, and I would, I, I, I would say that because it's like, of course being in this, in another country where you're, I stick out like a sore thumb.

[00:47:09] Dru Phillips: It's obvious, but trying to blend in. So I would learn, I learned some of the language, which is Cantonese, and it was, it is the most difficult language in the world. And I would always frequent the same places. I would always frequent the same places. Like every, every day I would go to the same arcade, play, street fighter, and, um, you know, I'd be whooping butt.

[00:47:27] Dru Phillips: Yes, I do. I, I, I took no prisoners and then the people would always see me. So they were like, that's just that guy a after a while. So when they saw me with my camera, you know, just wave and then just keep, keep going. So that again, it's the whole experience. So that's why I can talk so deeply into this one set of images is because it was more than just a click.

[00:47:47] Dru Phillips: It was like, oh, you're, you're shooting from the spirit. That's from the soul. Like you're, you gotta go out there and you, you gotta prepare for this shot. And funny story, I went out one day shooting and you know, you had to shoot with film. So I had to, I had these big four by five

[00:48:02] Dru Phillips: film cartridges. I had to shoot with film, and I think I had like five, no, I had six slides.

[00:48:08] Dru Phillips: I went out, I shot all day, got to the dark room to develop it. I never loaded the film in,

[00:48:14] Halfling: Oh, no. Oh, no.

[00:48:17] Dru Phillips: never loaded the film in. But guess what? I wasn't upset. That memory, that, that feeling, that emotion, those questions still happened. So that whole experience still happened, even though there I didn't, there's no evidence of it. It still happened and it was still satisfying.

[00:48:32] Halfling: Mm-hmm. Well, and, and hopefully you got an, you got another opportunity the next day to do something similar.

[00:48:40] Dru Phillips: Yeah. And double, triple check. Make sure I put the film in there. Yeah. You know, rookie, rookie mistakes, but it is what It's

[00:48:49] Halfling: Well, so let's talk a little bit about your journey into, you know, how you've become successful, and what steps you may have taken to get to where you are now. You've got a master's of course, and, and I don't know if you continue to take any educational classes or if it's at this point, if it's just more of a learning experience.

[00:49:13] Halfling: The more you do the, you know, the, the better you get 

[00:49:17] Spaceman: School of hard knocks

[00:49:18] Halfling: Yeah. School hard knocks. I mean, you know, what types of things have you have you done to hone your craft or, and to get you, get you where you are now?

[00:49:27] Dru Phillips: Yeah. So in this, in this, for this kind of craft, it's really a hustle. It's a constant. Need and a constant drive to evolve. So with our world, we evolve very quickly. So we're in, we're in 2023, and in 2020 we didn't have this giant conversation about ai. But now every conversation is AI and it's, Hey, I've seen conversations like, should AI be allowed to enter pictures into photo contests?

[00:49:57] Dru Phillips: And you're like, wait, why are we having a con? Why are we having a conversation about AI entering photographs that it didn't take, it created, right? So these conversations, so you need to have this constant drive and hustle to always evolve. Oneself. So I would say what I do is I still go to things like Adobe Max, which is the Adobe, uh, you know, Adobe Creative, uh, whole suite and everything like that.

[00:50:22] Dru Phillips: I go to the, the conferences and you learn from other creatives that do this all day, every day they teach it. That's all they do. So you learn from them, see what's new, see what's coming. Keep trying to evolve there. I would say I go to like, lynda.com and I'll look for, uh, different tutorials on things I don't know about.

[00:50:39] Dru Phillips: Just to try to like, okay, well what's new? Cause I have to keep up with it tomorrow, something's gonna be updated, so I have to keep on going, keep on evolving. So putting myself where I have, um I also, cause I teach photography as well, so I'm always teaching, keeping up with new things. Cuz if every time you teach it kind of helps you learn some more.

[00:50:58] Dru Phillips: Um, going to these different conferences and conventions, um, that are, that are talking about software and learning from other creatives that do things you don't do. And then looking at things that like free tutorials or pay tutorials like lynda.com is probably why the, the one I always go to cuz it has so much content.

[00:51:13] Dru Phillips: But YouTube is another source where like, there's no excuse nowadays to not know any information because any conversation. I can hang in because alls I gotta do is YouTube it or Google it, you know what I mean? So it's like, I have that information there, but I have to always want it. I can't get, I can't get content and I can't get stagnant in the craft.

[00:51:31] Dru Phillips: So I'm always doing research. I'm always looking at what the new gear is, and I'm always trying to get to whatever new conventions out. I can go to workshops and, and, and learn whatever's happening. But you can't in this field. You, you can't slack. There's too many things people, and now we have to worry about robots.

[00:51:49] Dru Phillips: Uh, that can literally take your job. And it used to be far-fetched and like a joke, but now it's literally like, people are like, no, I can do an AI created image. Like one photographer I follow on Instagram, he just came clean and was like, yeah, all these portraits that you guys love were AI generated.

[00:52:04] Dru Phillips: So he has like a bunch of thousands of followers. Everybody loved his work. And he was like, yeah, actually I didn't make it.

[00:52:10] Dru Phillips: And you're like, oh my gosh.

[00:52:12] Halfling: Wow.

[00:52:13] Dru Phillips: You 

[00:52:13] Dru Phillips: know what 

[00:52:13] Dru Phillips: I mean? So that's why I'm like, you have to keep pushing and trying to evolve 

[00:52:17] Spaceman: Right. It, it's funny you bring this up because we not long ago had a YouTuber, uh, Duchess Celestia out of Canada, 

[00:52:25] Spaceman: and, uh, she and I are both very concerned about AI and how it's gonna affect creative fields.

[00:52:32] Spaceman: The episode where we were talking to her and we were supposed to be talking about her background and her craft, and no, we spent about a third of it talking about ai.

[00:52:41] Dru Phillips: Yeah, 

[00:52:42] Dru Phillips: yeah.

[00:52:42] Dru Phillips: You have to, I mean, the co There's concerns in the schools now where, um, they're, they're talk, they haven't talked with teachers because chat, G B T or chat, is it? Yeah. Chat. 

[00:52:51] Dru Phillips: G B T. They're writing papers. The, the, the, the AI is writing papers and they're like, oh, we don't know what's real and what's not.

[00:52:58] Dru Phillips: So the conversation has to be had. There's no ignoring it. Now. It's like, it's, it's here. Me personally, and of course you guys can appreciate this as a nerd. I'm like, this is Skynet. I just saw, I just, 

[00:53:08] Halfling: Yeah. 

[00:53:08] Dru Phillips: saw an article. Yeah, I just saw an article about the New York Police Force. They have a new, they have three new police robots.

[00:53:16] Dru Phillips: One's a dog, one's like a thing that looks like Wall-E. And, uh, and one other thing. And I'm like, the, the robots act like, the, the robots from Ironman. Um, if you guys seen Age of Ultron, when the robots landed, I'm like, hello, we're here to help. And you're like, this is Skynet. This is Skynet. So yeah, AI needs to be talked about.

[00:53:35] Halfling: Yeah.

[00:53:36] Halfling: does. well, well, the, the guest that the Spaceman was talking about, she's, she's a digital artist and, you know, of course she had a lot of concerns about, you know, about just what we were talking about. You know, that you, you have AI generated art that's winning art contests, you know, and universities are having to worry about submissions for entrance, you know, that they're gonna have to come up with some other way to make sure that these papers were truly written by prospective students and not generated, and so

[00:54:18] Spaceman: And art schools are having the same problem with people's 

[00:54:21] Halfling: Yeah.

[00:54:22] Halfling: And so it's, I mean, I think it's, it's a bigger issue than, than a lot of people might want to believe or, you know, just don't believe at this point.

[00:54:31] Dru Phillips: Yeah, I think you're right with as far as saying they don't wanna believe it cuz it still, it still seems like a sci-fi movie. It seems like Minority Report or, or iRobot. You're like, yeah, that's in the movies. You're like, no, it's here. I see. I knew an artist that got flagged his, his account got flagged because they said it was, it was AI art and he was like, nah, this is me.

[00:54:49] Dru Phillips: Like, that's the thing now, now you don't know what is AI art and what's not like a a, a real actual artist is getting flagged and there's art artists online now selling their AI art as original artwork. And they're label, they're labeling themselves. I'm an AI artist and I'm like, well, if you're an AI artist, then I'm a microwave dinner chef.

[00:55:09] Dru Phillips: Like, what do you mean? Like,

[00:55:12] Halfling: You know, that is so, that is such a great comparison. I, I love that comparison.

[00:55:18] Spaceman: that's another 

[00:55:19] Spaceman: t-shirt.

[00:55:19] Halfling: Or, seriously, seriously. I mean, you know, we, we need to jot these down cuz we can make some money on this. Seriously mer merch store time. Um, anyway, okay, well, spaceman, I think you wanted to have another, question.

[00:55:35] Spaceman: question. Oh, okay. Okay. Uh hmm. So everybody, every pick a question. Okay. I'll pick a question. Everybody learns as they go, but when we look back, there's always that one thing that we really wish we would've known when we got started. What's your one thing 

[00:55:57] Dru Phillips: I wish I would've known to be more of a bully. That's that if I could, if I could go back. And why I say that is, um, I look at a lot of things that are out now that I did. Years ago, and I was doing it just for the fun of it, and I would like just give it to people. I'm like, yeah, here you go. Yeah, here you go.

[00:56:18] Dru Phillips: It's fine. I just want you to be happy. Now I'm seeing people doing it and make money off of it, and I'm like, man, I should have been more of a book. Like, it's not my personality. I'm more of a giver and I'm like, I just like to see people happy. But if I can, if I can go back in time and tell myself like, one thing I wish I knew, it was like, be a bully.

[00:56:36] Dru Phillips: Like, don't, don't do this stuff for free. Like be, be a bully about it. I mean, other than that, um, I sh I probably, yeah, well, I probably, I probably, yeah, it would be that. I, I can't think of anything else because lighting wise, I've been doing that since before I was doing cosplay, photography, drawing. I, I shoot how I draw.

[00:56:58] Dru Phillips: So like if I'm, if I'm gonna, if you see my drawings and my characters and stuff, it's my, my photographs kinda like mimic that. So that's there. If I can go back and tell my younger self something, it'd be like, don't play around with this. Like, everything, every idea you have, make something of it. Like be a bully about it.

[00:57:14] Dru Phillips: Be aggressive with it. Put it out there for trying to monetize what you're doing instead of just being nice. Cause people are doing it now and I'm like, oh man, I did that 10 years ago 

[00:57:24] Spaceman: and

[00:57:24] Spaceman: if, and if you don't, somebody else do it.

[00:57:27] Halfling: Yeah. 

[00:57:28] Dru Phillips: Correct. So I would do that. I'd probably do more video too, cuz I, I had the ability to do video, I just didn't do it.

[00:57:34] Dru Phillips: I, I do it again for my friends and just for fun, but man, yeah, that's that one thing I, I'd be more of a bully.

[00:57:41] Spaceman: Okay. Okay.

[00:57:42] Halfling: Well, you, you say bully, but I don't think that's quite the right word. I think, I think you just, you know, you just, I don't know. I, I don't know exactly how to, how to express it, but, but bully's not the right word

[00:57:54] Halfling: cuz, cuz I don't, you're you're, you're not gonna be a mean person.

[00:57:57] Halfling: You're 

[00:57:58] Dru Phillips: No, no, no. When I'm thinking like, you know how stock you can be bullish in the

[00:58:01] Spaceman: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:58:02] Dru Phillips: and bullish, you know what I mean? It's like be more aggressive with it. So that's what, yeah, definitely not mean. Like I wouldn't be a bullish like,

[00:58:08] Dru Phillips: yeah, 

[00:58:09] Halfling: money.

[00:58:10] Dru Phillips: yeah. Gimme your costume.

[00:58:11] Dru Phillips: Take off the mask. Yeah. No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't be a bully, but I would be bullish, meaning like I'd be more aggressive with my talent.

[00:58:20] Halfling: Okay. 

[00:58:20] Spaceman: right, 

[00:58:21] Halfling: Okay. That, that, that's acceptable. 

[00:58:24] Spaceman: All. 

[00:58:25] Halfling: well, what, do you have any resources to suggest for people that may, you know, that may be considering a career in photography? You know, maybe they're just starting out, maybe they have, maybe they have just finished their coursework in college, you know, and, and are just looking to get started in the actual career.

[00:58:44] Halfling: Do you have any resources for them?

[00:58:47] Dru Phillips: The, the main thing, if you're, if you're getting started, in this day and age, the best teacher's experience, so I would say try to get in somewhere and work under somebody. Even if it's like grunt work. Um, a lot of times back in the day, I was an assistant casting director, so me and my buddy who was like the main casting director, we were in like high school and we would put ourselves in commercials in TV shows, in movies because we would just cast ourselves as characters.

[00:59:16] Dru Phillips: Um, so like I was in like, Bad boys too. And I was in another movie, national Lampoons pledged this. 

[00:59:22] Dru Phillips: Yeah, it was like, so we, I was in a Bud Light commercial when I was underage. I mean, I probably shouldn't say that out loud, but it's, it's, that was years ago. But it was one of those things, cuz we did it. So, but working, being in on set was the best experience.

[00:59:35] Dru Phillips: It's, it, it's all the stuff that school couldn't teach you. So what I would say, the physical part of it is to find a photographer, find a videographer, find a studio, find somewhere and say, Hey, I'm just trying to get some experience. I would love to come in here and assist you in any way I can. And that way you're in the door and the best way to learn is you're just looking at him.

[00:59:56] Dru Phillips: So a lot of times when I'm on set, even till today, if I'm on set with a camera guy who's been doing this 40 years, I'm like, Hey, what are, what are you doing here? And he'll tell me, and I've even been on set and the camera guy was like, here, you wanna hold a camera? I'm like, yeah. So I'm holding like, I'm like holding like a 15, $20,000 camera and operating it.

[01:00:17] Dru Phillips: But I'm also learning, that's the important part is I'm, I'm learning ew, I'm learning what, yeah. I don't know what he's doing. I'm learning, so I'm learning though. But without the books, it's like I'm getting hands on experience and getting that muscle memory. So the physical is get up under somebody.

[01:00:34] Dru Phillips: The, the, the non-tangible, like what you can do like at Starbucks or something is, I would say, Do research and look at who's doing what you're doing. So sources like behance.net, uh, behance.net is one of the best places for creatives to go look at things. Um, there's a, there's a bun, there's, there's video, there's photo, there's design, there's, there's architecture, there's all that stuff.

[01:00:58] Dru Phillips: So go look at what the industry is looking at itself, um, and do that. I would also say, of course, adobe.com and just go on, they have free tutorials, or if you have an Adobe account already, just go and look up tutorials and they just, just look up stuff and learn how to do something to, to amplify whatever your skill is.

[01:01:16] Dru Phillips: So if you know how to do, if you're doing photography, learn how to do Illustrator and learn how to do InDesign. So you can do your own layout for that book you're gonna do, or your own layout for your magazine. You're gonna do. Or definitely learn Photoshop because you're gonna want to edit your own pictures or you can pay somebody to do it.

[01:01:31] Dru Phillips: I mean, It's up to you, but, um, resource-wise, um, lynda.com, behance.net, and adobe.com, to enhance those skills. And then the physical, which you can't, you know, it's worth, its weighting gold is go put yourself in the industry where you wanna be and just be on set. I can't tell you how many people that that come with me.

[01:01:52] Dru Phillips: I have had people, students who were like, can I assist you? I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, because I can. They're like, can you tell me how to do this? I'm like, I can show you. It's hard for me to tell you. I can just show you. Like, let me show you and then ask questions. And then I'm like, here, you try. And now it's a little bit different because you feel the weight, you, it is hands on.

[01:02:08] Dru Phillips: So get up under somebody. Don't be afraid to do the grunt work if like, oh, I don't wanna grab somebody's coffee. Grab that coffee and ask questions. Or just stand by that person and watch everything they're doing and then mimic them. I mean, like, wh wh why reinvent the wheel if somebody was like, do you know how to operate an Alexa camera?

[01:02:24] Dru Phillips: Uh, yeah. I I helped this guy do it. I can, I, I know where the buttons are now. You know. Do you know how to operate a, a Sony, a cinema camera or a Canon Cinema camera? Yeah. I assisted a guy that did it, so I kind of have, I'm familiar with it, you know what I mean? So you can get in there, or you can pay $10,000 and go or, or more and go back to school and, and I guess sit down and look at a book.

[01:02:47] Dru Phillips: I say, I, I say Go in it, go, go in it and 

[01:02:50] Halfling: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think that's, that's sound advice. I think it's absolutely sound advice. Probably. I think it applies to pretty much any creative endeavor. You know what I'm saying? I mean, not just, you know, but it's like, like writers give, give the advice all the time. You wanna be a good writer, right? Just write, that's, that's the thing.

[01:03:12] Halfling: You're not gonna get any better if you don't write. You can, you can read, read all sorts of, you know, source materials. You can join the, you know, join the Facebook groups and you know, and this and that. But ultimately you have to write. You just have to write. And when your writing sucks, you just write the next draft.

[01:03:33] Halfling: Just kidding.

[01:03:35] Spaceman: and then you 

[01:03:35] Spaceman: write 

[01:03:35] Spaceman: the next draft and I, and one day you find a publisher or an agent, 

[01:03:39] Spaceman: and there you 

[01:03:40] Spaceman: go. You 

[01:03:40] Halfling: have a career.

[01:03:42] Dru Phillips: That's it. I mean, that's how I did photography. Like when I tell you when I was stay in the, in the studio till the wee hours in the morning and it's just literally pushed a button. You're like, oh, that didn't work. Oh, well that one worked. Write it down. Okay, cool. Oh, that didn't work. Oh, I like this. Okay, cool.

[01:03:54] Dru Phillips: Write it down. But I wouldn't have done, I wouldn't have learned as much as I know if I hadn't just kept doing it. Just go out there and do it. And then the people who learn even faster is the ones that are under the ones that have already trained. Like, I've talked to somebody, I'm like, no, tell me all the mistakes you've made.

[01:04:09] Dru Phillips: So I don't make 'em, like, why would I wanna go and make the same mistakes? No, you've been there. So you tell me what you've done. Where are all the traps? Like Indiana Jones, like, where are all the traps at, man? Like, tell me that now. So I can just have a, a, a more of a straight shot. And then the next person behind me, and I love, my thing is I love giving, giving a hand up.

[01:04:25] Dru Phillips: Not so much a handout, but I love giving a hand up because it's like, if I can help you up to the next level, that means you can push me. To the next level. Does that 

[01:04:32] Dru Phillips: make sense? So it's like, if I give you a hand up, you help me, you push me, I pull you, or vice versa.

[01:04:38] Halfling: There you go. Ready? You go. That's great.

[01:04:41] Spaceman: All right. So what's next for Dru? What exciting thing do you have coming up?

[01:04:47] Dru Phillips: So I'm working on, as we said earlier, before the podcast started, I'm working on my drip painting series and

[01:04:54] Dru Phillips: This 

[01:04:54] Dru Phillips: is actually part two of it. It's called Belladonna series, and it's the part two of this series. Um, I'm working on getting that out, but, um, that's tough because I gotta actually, Shoot, I gotta, I gotta shoot the image, then I gotta, I gotta get it printed on Canvas and then I gotta do this, and then I gotta actually paint it and all gotta stuff.

[01:05:12] Dru Phillips: So it's like, there's a lot of work that goes into it. So trying to do that between work and finding a place where I can make a mess, uh, is, is tough. So I'm, um, the Bella, the Bella Donna two series is what I'm working on. I'm also waiting for, uh, BarrFoxx and Cosplay Your Way to Gimme the green light for the second part of his documentary series.

[01:05:31] Dru Phillips: So he did the, um, the documentary series Cosplay Your Way In Color, and I did a lot of the, the footage on that. So, and that, that was, that just was one of those things. Oh, oh, that's great. That was one of those things where I said, I just had my camera on me and I would just always document the stuff we were doing.

[01:05:48] Dru Phillips: That's how that evolved. Like he had enough footage and content because he was always recording. So whenever we went, so now. Wherever we go, I record and do interviews and stuff like that. So I'm, I'm waiting for him to tell me it's a go for the next part of that. And that's kind of exciting cuz now we've seen, you know, it's award-winning and it's, and and people are really 

[01:06:07] Dru Phillips: interested in it. So I'm like, oh, now it's like, we can really do some stuff. Now we have a focus before we just did it just to do it. You know what I mean? But now we can actually have a focus, so there's that. Other than that, um, let's see, I'm working on, I'm trying to do, also do a show with my illustrations. I'm, I'm pushing that, but that's more slow and go.

[01:06:27] Dru Phillips: Cause you know, again, I draw when I can and that, that stuff comes out. I draw a ballpoint pen and that's like, because I don't wanna be able to go backwards and stuff like that. And then I do watercolors and color pencils. So that's a really slow process. So I don't know when that's gonna happen. First and foremost will probably be the, the Belladonna two show.

[01:06:45] Spaceman: Oh, okay.

[01:06:46] Dru Phillips: Mm. Oh, wait, no, actually I'm lying. There is something else. So, cutie, cutie, uh, CutiePieSensei. Um, she also has a clothing line.

[01:06:55] Dru Phillips: She has a, she has a clothing line and, I'm waiting for her to let me know when she has all her pieces in so we can do another photo shoot with that, because her, her clothing line is, uh, it's nerd 

[01:07:04] Dru Phillips: based.

[01:07:05] Dru Phillips: So she, she makes all her stuff based off of like video games and like, comment books and stuff like that, or street fighter, like she has bathing, uh, swimsuits and stuff that are like, based off of like street fighter characters and different things like that. So, again, I get that both sides of the nerd and the

[01:07:19] Dru Phillips: photographic aspect of it.

[01:07:21] Dru Phillips: So it's not just like taking the pictures, it's like, no, I'm gonna treat this like a, um, a Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition, 

[01:07:27] Dru Phillips: but with like nerd 

[01:07:28] Dru Phillips: stuff, 

[01:07:28] Dru Phillips: you know what I mean? It's like, Give it that same treatment. Let's go, let's go to a, let's go to a beach. I mean, we can, we can go down to Myrtle Beach or we can go down to Savannah and let's shoot your, the, the nerd stuff.

[01:07:39] Dru Phillips: But like it's sports illustrator. So you, again, giving the nerd stuff the same respect and the same uh, um, importance that you would give a regular fashion shoot.

[01:07:50] Spaceman: Okay. Okay. Well, uh, we're, it's time for us to wrap up.

[01:07:54] Spaceman: So where can folks find out more about, about Dru.

[01:07:59] Dru Phillips: Um, there's a few places, um, most of my nerd stuff, if they wanna look at, they can go to, I Dru that, I D R U T H A T, idruthat.com and they'll see like all my cosplay stuff. And then if they wanna see like more of my, um, like the fitness and the corporate and the headshot that's at the, a 

[01:08:17] Dru Phillips: image,

[01:08:17] Dru Phillips: which is, uh, T h e a m p i m a g e, so at the a m p image and they can see all the other stuff or on Instagram for both things.

[01:08:27] Dru Phillips: I Dru that I, uh, if you wanna see the nerd stuff and then the a m p image, if you wanna see more of the, uh, corporate, normy stuff. What, what do we call 'em again? I 

[01:08:36] Halfling: Mundanes The Mundanes. Yeah.

[01:08:39] Dru Phillips: The mundanes

[01:08:40] Halfling: of like. Like the muggles, you know? 

[01:08:44] Halfling: Oh wait, maybe I wasn't supposed to say that. I don't know. Well, Dru, we have had such a good time talking to you today. it, has been absolutely a great conversation. It is a lot of fun. And, and we have learned a lot of, so we appreciate you, you know, taking us on, on a journey through your career and your path that's led you to the success that you've had.

[01:09:11] Halfling: Um, and we'll be sure to include, you know, include all that information in the show notes as well.

[01:09:18] Dru Phillips: Nice. Thank you so much. This is fun. Appreciate it. I love when I can nerd out with people. You know, you work the corporate world and you come home and you're like, let me be me.

[01:09:29] Spaceman: Well. So we want to thank all our listeners for tuning in today. We hope that you've enjoyed and perhaps become inspired by today's guest, Dru Phillips. We want to give Dru a huge thank you for joining us today, and this is the Spaceman over and out.


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